Analog recording. ....... Does anyone still use tape ??

[lowdown]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1410905326' post='2554658']
My uncle gave me his old Tascam Portastudio over Christmas so I've been meaning to give it a go and see how it all worked before digital. It'll be a great experience I bet [/quote]

This might interest you.
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/09/16/how-to-use-a-tascam-portastudio-as-an-instrument/

[Mornats]

Hey that's pretty cool!

[flyfisher]

I had an Akai 4000DS open-reel 4-track tape deck that had 'sound on sound' capability - basically bouncing one track to another - and me and a few mates would spend hours recording songs. But it was only 1/4 inch tape running at 7.5ips and no dolby so the sound quality got pretty bad after a few bounces. Great fun though, as was playing around with tape loops and backwards instruments.

@Dad - regarding old and 'brittle' tapes, I'm sure I've read about baking such tapes in an oven to stabilise the oxide layer. It doesn't work for long but long enough to run off a copy. I'm not entirely sure though, so don't take my word for it!

Regarding the Wem copycat, the guitarist in our school band turned up with one of those one day and it was like science fiction right there and then. I don't think we played anything without massive echo for ages afterwards

[jensenmann]

Huge tapedelay fan here. One of my 1/4" machines is always used for tapedelay. On top of that I´m using a space echo and currently I´m refurbishing three Dynacord Echocord tapedelays for future use. Back in the days when we had to use tapedelay everybody thought it´s crap to use and sounds useless. Like Dylan said: times are achanging :-)

[steve-bbb]

Ranscombe Studios in Rochester exclusively analogue recorded on a one inch 24 track tascam

[url="https://soundcloud.com/thekick-backs/sets/the-kick-backs-demo-1"]https://soundcloud.com/thekick-backs/sets/the-kick-backs-demo-1[/url]

Edited September 23, 2014 by steve-bbb

[BigRedX]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1411247074' post='2557913']
Ranscombe Studios in Rochester exclusively analogue recorded on a one inch 24 track tascam
[/quote]

24 tracks across 1" of tape. Thats a narrow track width and not much better than compact cassette!

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1411291909' post='2558116']
24 tracks across 1" of tape. Thats a narrow track width and not much better than compact cassette!
[/quote]

agreed but then Ranscombe have purposely stayed analogue - im sure there are plenty of vst plugins to simulate all manner of old school analogue rack mount studio effects but then you wouldnt be able to have fun like this



[url="http://www.ranscombestudios.com"][/url]

Edited September 21, 2014 by steve-bbb

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1411291909' post='2558116']
24 tracks across 1" of tape. Thats a narrow track width and not much better than compact cassette!
[/quote]

... and just how much 'better' than compact cassette does one have to get..? If it [i]sounds [/i]right, it [i]is[/i] right, no..?

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1411314928' post='2558342']
... and just how much 'better' than compact cassette does one have to get..? If it [i]sounds [/i]right, it [i]is[/i] right, no..?
[/quote]

and the tascam isnt running at 1&7/8 ips like a standard cassette either

[MacDaddy]

"Ampeg 456 tape had a characteristic bump in the low frequency range, Scotch 250 had a characteristic crispness in the high frequencies, and Agfa 467 a luster in the midrange. "

Levitin, D. (2006) p3.

[Dad3353]

Before tape (and magnetised wire, wax cylinders and the like...) we had to use the only technology available : memory. Not ideal as a medium, I'll grant, and with a limited shelf life, but I still have a fair few recordings, bootlegged using this old system. Fairport Convention at Godshill, Isle of Wight..? The Airplane at the Roundhouse..? Pink Floyd in a North London park (with the Pretty Things, amongst others...)..? All safely stored away, tails out, awaiting the big moment when I think of them. Yes, I'll admit that there may be some loss of fidelity, and these copies are not easily transferable. I certainly can't sell them. Just as well, as there's no price I could put on them. I rather like the old way, really. Tape seems somewhat too 'reel'.

[flyfisher]

I suspect there's no real loss of fidelity. Indeed, it may even improve over time

[Dad3353]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1411409418' post='2559274']
I suspect there's no real loss of fidelity. Indeed, it may even improve over time
[/quote]

... which, by definition, [i]is [/i]a loss of fidelity..! Enjoyably so, you're right there..!

[51m0n]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1411037690' post='2555774']
Simon!! Good to hear from you, it's been a while.

So it takes a thread about analogue gear to draw you out of the shadows? Typical
[/quote]

Yup, too busy playing bass and running the band to be on here anywhere near as much as I used to be, sorry old boy

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1411292835' post='2558127']
agreed but then Ranscombe have purposely stayed analogue - im sure there are plenty of vst plugins to simulate all manner of old school analogue rack mount studio effects but then you wouldnt be able to have fun like this



[url="http://www.ranscombestudios.com"][/url]
[/quote]

Thats everything I hate about analogue project studios in two pictures

A cheap patchbay, poorly labelled and comepletely overrun with cables, a rack of outpboard almost to the ceiling that s a country mile from the listening sweet spot, which in a room that small is about two inched deep and one inch wide, and lastly a 32 channel Mackie 8 buss (unless I'm very much mistaken), in a room that is about 1/3 the minimum size it needs to be to mix in, with no serious acoustic treatment at all.

MInd you I bet you can have blast in there, but you'll forever be wondering why you cant get your mixes to translate easily.

Edited September 23, 2014 by 51m0n

[jensenmann]

...but they have an Avalon

It´s a Soundtracs Topaz, btw.

[steve-bbb]

its an old pic btw there is also an electroharmonix NY2A sitting on top of that lot now (apologies for the sh*tty quality - almost as rough as my bass playing)

[funkgod]

[quote name='steve-bbb' timestamp='1411292835' post='2558127']
agreed but then Ranscombe have purposely stayed analogue - im sure there are plenty of vst plugins to simulate all manner of old school analogue rack mount studio effects but then you wouldnt be able to have fun like this



[url="http://www.ranscombestudios.com"][/url]
[/quote]


What a cool looking place looks like its not been touched since the 70s.
i have the same recorder just finished replacing all the micro switches on the front and made a new pich roller for it,
they are so well made i love it,
great to see they are still being used, cheers


[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1411291909' post='2558116']
24 tracks across 1" of tape. Thats a narrow track width and not much better than compact cassette!
[/quote]

so imagine the Msr16 which is 16 tracks aross 1/2 tape ( thats like 32 tracks over the same 1" tape) but it still sounds good

Voltage studios in bradford still use one....
http://www.voltagestudios.com/studio.html

Edited September 23, 2014 by funkgod

[WinterMute]

We have an Otari MTR90 mk2 in one of our rooms, coupled with a Custom Series 75 Neve console and the CLASP closed loop plug-in system, much fun...

Maintained by the inevitable Clive Kavan [url="http://www.clivekavan.com/index.html"]http://www.clivekavan.com/index.html[/url]

Teaching analog recording to modern students may seem a bit anachronistic, but the quality is undeniable, even when compared with Protools HDx through the Apogee Symphony AD's. The CLASP system just keeps it very modern and useful. I still love the sound of drums and bass off 2" 30ips tape. (yeah 15ips is cool too, and Clive will tell you 8 track 2" is the bomb).

[url="https://www.uwl.ac.uk/academic-schools/music/facilities/music-technology-facilities"]https://www.uwl.ac.uk/academic-schools/music/facilities/music-technology-facilities[/url]

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='WinterMute' timestamp='1411508326' post='2560297']

Teaching analog recording to modern students may seem a bit anachronistic, but the quality is undeniable, even when compared with Protools HDx through the Apogee Symphony AD's. The CLASP system just keeps it very modern and useful. I still love the sound of drums and bass off 2" 30ips tape. (yeah 15ips is cool too, and Clive will tell you 8 track 2" is the bomb).

[url="https://www.uwl.ac.uk/academic-schools/music/facilities/music-technology-facilities"]https://www.uwl.ac.uk/academic-schools/music/facilities/music-technology-facilities[/url]
[/quote]

Our keys is 19 and is a student at SAE so he found the old school analogue experience very interesting too

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1411314928' post='2558342']
... and just how much 'better' than compact cassette does one have to get..? If it [i]sounds [/i]right, it [i]is[/i] right, no..?
[/quote]

It's all about limiting cross-talk between adjacent tracks. After all there's no point in recording on a 24 track machine if the bleed from one track to it's neighbours means that in reality you can only use every other track.

It's generally accepted that you try and aim for 1/8" for each track on reel to reel tape which means that you get two tracks (stereo) on standard 1/4" tape. You sacrifice some quality cramming 24 rather than 16 tracks onto 2" tape, but wider tape has it's own problems and the industry in the 70s settled on 2" as the format for professional 24 track machines.

The problem with formats that cram more tracks onto narrower tape is that they were a solution to a problem that existed in the 80s and should really exist any more. Making a 2" format tape recorder is formidable technical challenge both mechanically and electrically. Even the cheaper end of the market like Otari resulted in huge complex pieces of equipment. And although it might have been cheap in comparison to the serious professional quality stuff it still wasn't affordable to the average budget/project studio.

So what could you do if 8 or even 16 tracks wasn't enough (and as we know more tracks is better *grin*)? At the hobbyist end of the market companies like Fostex and Tascam were having relative success cramming 8 tracks onto compact cassette recorders, and so started to apply what they had learned from their portastudios to larger tape formats, hence the introduction of (relatively) affordable 24 machines using the cheaper 1" tape format. Unfortunately hard disk systems like ProTools made these machine obsolete within 10 years of their introduction, so the technology never really had a chance to mature beyond the initial designs.

The studio that we used for our analogue recording session has a 2" Otari recorder which is pretty much the entry level machine for this tape format. It is a veritable beast somewhat larger and heavier than an automatic washing machine, and requires calibrating before each session to ensure that the mechanical and electrical parts are functioning at their best.

There's no deny that the basic sound is good, but it isn't anything that someone with good ears and some nice sounding compression plugins couldn't do quicker and easier on a DAW.

Sometimes I think our view of obsolete technology is just a bit too rose-tinted...

Edited September 24, 2014 by BigRedX

[Beer of the Bass]

Just as a bit of a game, there are three tracks on this EP. One was tracked to a 1/4" 8 track Fostex R8, the other two were straight to digital. Same signal path, same live room, same day. Guess which one was the tape!
[url="https://jenthegents.bandcamp.com/album/right-now-ep"]https://jenthegents....um/right-now-ep[/url]

Edited September 24, 2014 by Beer of the Bass

[Dad3353]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1411586145' post='2560986']
It's all about limiting cross-talk between adjacent tracks...
[/quote]



Yes, you're right, of course, and (as an official 'old git'...) I'm all too familiar with the 'features' of these creaky old recording media.
Most of my virtual drum software do, indeed, describe a s a feature their ability to 'bleed' between elements (or not, of course...). It's often considered a means of breathing some semblance of life into what would otherwise be considered a too 'sterile' performance. Perfection is not always required, especially in rock'n'roll. I'm not so sentimental about all that stuff now, though, despite still preferring my Space Echo over most other similar effects. I wouldn't record with it, though. Too old, like me.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1411586513' post='2560990']...Guess which one was the tape!...
[/quote]

Track 2, I'd say. I don't smoke, so no cigar, please, but a Teddy bear would be nice...

(Nice tracks, too... )

[funkgod]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1411586513' post='2560990']
Guess which one was the tape!
[url="https://jenthegents.bandcamp.com/album/right-now-ep"]https://jenthegents....um/right-now-ep[/url]
[/quote]

Im going for 3 as the tape one ??

i popped into 6DB studio in manchester yesterday,

[url="http://www.6dbstudio.com/#/testimonials/4557413306"]http://www.6dbstudio...ials/4557413306[/url]

they have some great gear in there
and still uses an Otari 2" 24 track. i think "The Fall" are doing their new album there
at mo.

Edited October 27, 2014 by funkgod

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='funkgod' timestamp='1413026609' post='2574257']
Im going for 3 as the tape one ??
[/quote]

Correct! We had a fairly limited project studio type setup so it may not show it to its full effect.