stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I made a declaration earlier this year that I have done my share of free gigs now, dragging all the gear miles for an unappreciative audience purely because the organisers will throw anything they can get at the event if they can get it for free regardless of suitability, I appreciate they are doing the best they can though. I told the current trio I play with that it will be my last charity gig after the last freebie disaster and I wont be depping any free gigs from this day forth even if we will supposedly bag millions of weddings off it for the band and the regular bass player and me to share, let him do it. Just to help me confirm this I have just heard that the guys in my band did this gig last year as a full rock covers band, they said hardly anyone turned up because its a private members club they said they should not have to pay to get in to any event, £5 for a live band and a buffet with donations to guide dogs. So we are taking thousands of pounds worth of gear and setting it all up, playing probably two hours to entertain them while someone else feeds them all for free, I'd rather just put a tenner of my own cash into a guide dogs collection tin and have a night in than have the piss taken out of us. If they dont want it thats fine, its their club but seriously whats the point? We have sold lots of tickets to mates so it will be a good fun gig regardless but defo my last one for charity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 In my experience, a band is valued by what they charge, so a band that plays for nothing is considered to be worth nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410721143' post='2552346'] I wont be depping any free gigs from this day forth even if we will supposedly bag millions of weddings off it for the band and the regular bass player and me to share, let him do it. ... I'd rather just put a tenner of my own cash into a guide dogs collection tin and have a night in than have the piss taken out of us. [/quote] In a nutshell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1410721307' post='2552348'] In my experience, a band is valued by what they charge, so a band that plays for nothing is considered to be worth nothing. [/quote] I hear you but the principal is what we are worth goes to charity, I would not play their club for free just because they want a band for the night for example, the idea here is lets say our little trio is worth £150 minimum so that goes to the guide dogs and we have a fun gig, but that wont work if the members dont want to pay for a ticket will it, its not like we will just be playing for free if there was no charity event is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) [size=5][sup]Not our policy to do a charity event for free and it was one members argument that he would put money in the pot for a charity if he so desired,[/sup][sup]but he was not going to work for nothing,. I felt I couldn't argue against that, so that became our stance.[/sup] [sup]I find the events that charge money are the better gigs..almost invaribly, and that includes the few pubs dates we do.[/sup] [sup]If someone has spec'd the tent, the stage the P.A and lights, they aren't going to skimp on the band fee either as they likely know the value of [/sup][sup]service and product. And if he knows he has a cost, he must know how many people he is aiming at and if he is realistic he will be relatively sure who is coming..within reason. That concentrates the task, whereas the more frivolous may be more hit and hope.[/sup] [sup]Basically, the more pro minded they are with regards to cost and to do things 'properly', the more serious we take their enquiry[/sup][/size] Edited September 14, 2014 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I don't agree, if your band is worth, for example, £150 for a gig, in my experience the band will be treated badly and the charity will not see the £150.00. Better by far to do a regular gig for £150 and donate the money to the charity of your choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Doing free gigs is not good or bad, it's rather a choice. So if you made the choice to do it than do it right. As an artist in a perfect world, money should not be mentioned. Unfortunately it's far from being that perfect so it's up to you to make decisions. Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1410724254' post='2552432'] I don't agree, if your band is worth, for example, £150 for a gig, in my experience the band will be treated badly and the charity will not see the £150.00. Better by far to do a regular gig for £150 and donate the money to the charity of your choice. [/quote] We are not organising the event though are we, if we were then that would be easier I agree, the principal is rather than pay the band pay a fiver into the pot, we are doing our bit, the venue is expecting about 100 people so thats £500 in the pot without any extra donations or raffle prizes etc much more than the £150 raised the other way. Not an issue anyway as I say its my last Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1410724653' post='2552446'] Doing free gigs is not good or bad, it's rather a choice. So if you made the choice to do it than do it right. As an artist in a perfect world, money should not be mentioned. Unfortunately it's far from being that perfect so it's up to you to make decisions. Best [/quote] To be honest its the members wanting to come for free as they have paid a fee that pissed me off most, without the £5 tickets they can go for free but only to watch tv and play pool rather than see a band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 And eat the free food. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Are people really going to pay a fiver each to see the band? If so, why doesn't the organiser pay £150+ to the band so they can donate their fee (minus expenses) to the charity? Afraid I have played too many many charity gigs where the only people giving their time for free has been the band. I am not anti-charity, but definitely anti using 'charity' as an excuse to rip people off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Never a charity bar is there ? A little secret, charity nights are suggested as zero cost events to landlords by greedy breweries. The donations come from punters, the entertainment as in the band work for nothing, the bar till rings all night long. Any charity will do. Taking the piss out of musicians to sell beer. Anyone who questions it is a kunt, Well get me a T-shirt, ill be a kunt, I have rent and bills to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 The last one I did was a complete f*** up. I don't intend to do any more 'freebies'. I think the numbers at the end of the night were something like £400 split between the two named charities, but over £2000 behind the bar. Organisers took the piss and it was pretty much a disaster from start to finish. We played well (as always) and treated the whole thing as a 'public rehearsal', but I'd come home early from a family holiday (by a couple of hours, but even so) to drive the hour to the gig and get home at 2am. Not doing them anymore. If I believe in a specific cause or charity then I'll donate privately to support them, but to do that for a couple of hundred quid fora charity then really, I'd rather just bung them the money and stay at home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted September 14, 2014 Author Share Posted September 14, 2014 To be fair the club is not behind organising it but you are right I bet the first £150 of beer isn't free is it? Fwiw yes people really are paying a fiver to see us and eat the buffet, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1410726621' post='2552507'] Never a charity bar is there ? A little secret, charity nights are suggested as zero cost events to landlords by greedy breweries. The donations come from punters, the entertainment as in the band work for nothing, the bar till rings all night long. Any charity will do. Taking the piss out of musicians to sell beer. Anyone who questions it is a kunt, Well get me a T-shirt, ill be a kunt, I have rent and bills to pay. [/quote] Spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Some charities I`ll happily gig for, irrespective of how much a pain it can be - Great Ormond St, Cancer Research, things like that. Whereas others I`ll have nothing to do with, irrespective of what other bands are on - mainly political and religion biased charities. Each to their own, but if a band I`m in can do something worthwhile, I`ll give a day of my time for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Luc Pickguard Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I did a Sunday afternoon one at the now defunct Grove Tavern in South Wimbledon & my car was broken into while I was playing. Another that band played in Guildford, it was plainly obvious that the 'charity gig' was really an excuse to get the mayor to cut the ribbon when they reopened under a different name and get publicity in the local paper and a bunch of goodwill from the locals. The promised free pints for the band and petrol money never materialised. My opinion these days to not play 'em for free unless the bar & security staff are also working for free. Its a ripoff - even if the pub makes a song & dance about donating a few hundred quid from the takings, I doubt they're likely to be out of pocket if the beer has been flowing from lunchtime to closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Charity and benefits for the most part are slowly making a bad name for themselves with bands. There are 2 key concerns;[list] [*]Other vendors are getting paid, it's only bands they feel they can get for nothing [*]You never really know where the money is going [/list] I feel good giving the homeless guy that asks me for money $5.00 because I know he is going to use it and I don't care what he buys with it. There will always be young ambitious bands that fall for the whole [i]"exposure"[/i] thing and will play free of charge. In my experience the only thing your exposed to are other businesses that want you to play for free. My band had been playing a a large county festival for the last 3 years and they did not book us this year. They told us they were giving bands that had been trying to get in for the past few years a chance. We did some research and found the festival organizer was not being honest with us. What happened was they went out and recruited bands that would play for free. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' timestamp='1410729155' post='2552558'] I did a Sunday afternoon one at the now defunct Grove Tavern in South Wimbledon & my car was broken into while I was playing. Another that band played in Guildford, it was plainly obvious that the 'charity gig' was really an excuse to get the mayor to cut the ribbon when they reopened under a different name and get publicity in the local paper and a bunch of goodwill from the locals. The promised free pints for the band and petrol money never materialised. My opinion these days to not play 'em for free unless the bar & security staff are also working for free. Its a ripoff - even if the pub makes a song & dance about donating a few hundred quid from the takings, I doubt they're likely to be out of pocket if the beer has been flowing from lunchtime to closing. [/quote] Spot on, Agreed! Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Well, looks like the other side of the coin won't be popular but it's just a matter of choice isn't it? Any charity event will involve some costs for some things, but just because some things have to be paid for it doesn't mean all things have to be paid for. The idea will be to minimise the costs as far as possible in order to maximise the amount for the charity and each event will have its own mix. As we've discussed before, playing music is fun for many people. It's not a job for them it's a leisure time activity, like running, golf, sailing, cycling, etc, so they are more likely to be perfectly happy to play for free than someone working behind a bar. That just the way it is. If you're a pro musician who won't open your bass case without being paid then that's fine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1410726621' post='2552507'] Never a charity bar is there ? A little secret, charity nights are suggested as zero cost events to landlords by greedy breweries. The donations come from punters, the entertainment as in the band work for nothing, the bar till rings all night long. [/quote] My thoughts exactly, one of the most abused charities in this regard is help the heroes, a charity day with loads of bands with nothing in common except they'll play for free, most of them because they're crap and wouldn't get paid anyway, and completely disinterested punters who buy a few drinks, let their kids run wild then bugger off. Oh yeah, there's always the raffle where the pub has got a load of local business's to donate items for free, then brag they've donated £200 to the charity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geek99 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1410721552' post='2552354'] I hear you but the principal is what we are worth goes to charity, I would not play their club for free just because they want a band for the night for example, the idea here is lets say our little trio is worth £150 minimum so that goes to the guide dogs and we have a fun gig, but that wont work if the members dont want to pay for a ticket will it, its not like we will just be playing for free if there was no charity event is it? [/quote] \the members are clearly that - a bunch of "members". Utterly mean. I wouldnt object to paying extra for a purely charity gig (If the house was taking the profit, I would object because it would be part of the package) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1410726621' post='2552507'] Never a charity bar is there ? A little secret, charity nights are suggested as zero cost events to landlords by greedy breweries. The donations come from punters, the entertainment as in the band work for nothing, the bar till rings all night long. [/quote] So let me just check this . . . The punters are happy to donate to a charity The band is happy to play for nothing The landlord and greed brewery are happy to make their profit Nope, can't see the problem myself - everyone seems to be happy. Seems that YOU are the one with a problem with it, so why not just stay in bed until someone offers you some money to get up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410857489' post='2553824'] Seems that YOU are the one with a problem with it, so why not just stay in bed until someone offers you some money to get up? [/quote] Zing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1410857489' post='2553824'] So let me just check this . . . The punters are happy to donate to a charity The band is happy to play for nothing The landlord and greed brewery are happy to make their profit Nope, can't see the problem myself - everyone seems to be happy. Seems that YOU are the one with a problem with it, so why not just stay in bed until someone offers you some money to get up? [/quote] the problem is, the landlords are taking advantage of the charity for their own profit, it's no better than someone who goes round with a collecting tin then pockets 90% of the money for themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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