Is it time to leave my band?

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1410791993' post='2553164']
Good luck!

Just out of interest, how do they do gigs without you if none of them drive?
[/quote]

A lot of our gigs are in places with supplied or shared backline, though it's often pretty ropey. I much prefer to bring my own even if I'm just hopping on the bus with my MB200 and Wizzy 10. Out of town gigs are entirely dependent on me being available to drive.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Beer of the Bass

[UglyDog]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410789232' post='2553129']They have the idea that we must accept gigs wherever possible no matter whether the whole band can make it. Although our few paid gigs make us less than minimum wage and many don't even cover expenses, [b]the singer and guitarist seem quite convinced that this is professionalism[/b].[/quote]What? Good god no. It's desperation.
[quote]My idea of professionalism for the type of gigs we do is presenting a good quality, consistent sound at every gig and not accepting gigs unless we can do that.[/quote]Yet again, the bassist is the sole voice of reason and sense in the band Have you told them this? If so, did they pooh-pooh it?
[quote]I've asked everybody if we can meet up for a chat. Wish me luck![/quote]Do you want luck in changing their minds, or luck in getting a painless divorce from them?

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1410792702' post='2553176']
Do you want luck in changing their minds, or luck in getting a painless divorce from them?
[/quote]

I want to part on good terms, smooth the transition if they look for a replacement bassist and still be talking to them at the end of the process, since they've been friends since before this band existed.

[miles'tone]

Good luck!

[UglyDog]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410793063' post='2553186']
I want to part on good terms, smooth the transition if they look for a replacement bassist and still be talking to them at the end of the process, since they've been friends since before this band existed.
[/quote]Cool. If they're real friends they will understand. Good luck

[jezzaboy]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410793063' post='2553186']
I want to part on good terms, smooth the transition if they look for a replacement bassist and still be talking to them at the end of the process, since they've been friends since before this band existed.
[/quote]

The best option by far. As you have know them before the band was together, its good to keep things amicable.

Re the driving thing. I will never join another band where people don`t have their own transport. It just becomes too much hassle.

[blue]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410742367' post='2552681']
I have been having mixed feelings about one of my bands lately (the first link in my signature) and I'm trying to decide if I may end up leaving when we get together to talk to each other about it. I've played in the band for several years; we've had some really enjoyable gigs and recorded some things I'm quite pleased with. It's an amateur concern, as while some gigs are paid, when all band activities are taken into account we break even or less.
I also play in two other projects, one of which gigs very rarely and the other of which can occasionally be busy though it's quite sporadic. When asked about my availability for gigs, I will confirm the earliest offer for a given date without giving priority to any one band, so short notice gigs (less than a fortnight ahead) are sometimes turned down.
This summer I've had limited availability as my Father-in-Law had a prolonged period of illness and passed away last month and we've had to travel up and down from Scotland to England a number of times to care for him and my Mother-in-Law and to sort things out after his death. I had to cancel a couple of gigs at short notice the week he died, but what else can you do?
The band keep accepting gigs when I have told them I'm not available and playing them without bass, which for our particular lineup isn't going to work very well. I have told the band that I'm uncomfortable with this as I don't feel that going out like that represents us very well and I would prefer to feel like a core part of the band rather than an optional add-on. If anything I would rather they used a dep rather than going out bass-less. Two members of the band have responded to this by saying how disappointed they were in my limited availability recently and that they thought I must be losing interest, and this is when when I've already made my family situation quite clear to them.
We have already disagreed a few times recently over which gigs we should accept, as our singer believes we need to say yes to everything in order to "make it". I have no concept of trying to "make it" and just want to play gigs which I enjoy.
We haven't worked on any new material in over a year and it appears that my priorities are not the same as the rest of the band. I'm fond of this band, so it's a difficult choice to make. Looking at this description, what do people reckon?
[/quote]

As soon as someone or a band has a goal of "making it" it's really a judgement call.

For most of the 60 plus guys here "making it" is something we generally don't have to think about.

I started playing bass and gigging at age 12. I'm 61 and still gigging every weekend and getting paid so in some ways I've "made it".

blue

[Weststarx]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410789232' post='2553129']
They have the idea that we must accept gigs wherever possible no matter whether the whole band can make it. Although our few paid gigs make us less than minimum wage and many don't even cover expenses, the singer and guitarist seem quite convinced that this is professionalism. [b]My idea of professionalism for the type of gigs we do is presenting a good quality, consistent sound at every gig and not accepting gigs unless we can do that. [/b]
[/quote]

In bloody deed!

My band keep insisting I put our unmixed demo CD on our website that has jumps in volume, no bass with extremely loud back up vocals. Yet they think its acceptable to promote ourselves to venues with it. Needless to say whilst I have control over the website/soundcloud/facebook theres not a chance in hell its going on there.

Music isnt something you can have the 'Don't worry, that'll do' attitude because if you do, chances are you are going to sound absolutely awful.

[cheddatom]

I'm in a band where one of the members is a bit like this. He'll take any old gig, never paid gigs, and always put loads of pressure on to fulfil them, and to get recordings/artwork etc done RIGHT NOW. I'm trying to get my recording studio off the ground, so it's very important to me. I recently postponed a recording session because he'd sent me a load of characteristically sh*tty texts, pressuring me to do so, just for another unpaid gig. I found out a few days later that we'd not got the gig, but he didn't let me know and didn't apologise!!!!

If I asked BC for advice I'm sure you'd all say this is awful and I need to leave, but the fact is this band is a hell of a lot of fun, so I just put it to the back of my mind and have a good time

[RockfordStone]

sounds like you are making the right decision, you say you are older by 6-8 years and they can't drive... sounds to me like they are at that age when making it is their dream, and you have had that dream seen the light and now want to play for the fun of it like a lot of us have.

if you have conflicting views, which you clearly do it just won't work... doing every sh*tty gig won't get places, especially given that said sh*tty gig is often sh*tty because no one is there to see you.

bands should be a joy imo, not a hassle, the second it become a hassle its time to go.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410742367' post='2552681'] I have been having mixed feelings about one of my bands lately (the first link in my signature) and I'm trying to decide if I may end up leaving when we get together to talk to each other about it. I've played in the band for several years; we've had some really enjoyable gigs and recorded some things I'm quite pleased with. It's an amateur concern, as while some gigs are paid, when all band activities are taken into account we break even or less. I also play in two other projects, one of which gigs very rarely and the other of which can occasionally be busy though it's quite sporadic. When asked about my availability for gigs, I will confirm the earliest offer for a given date without giving priority to any one band, so short notice gigs (less than a fortnight ahead) are sometimes turned down. This summer I've had limited availability as my Father-in-Law had a prolonged period of illness and passed away last month and we've had to travel up and down from Scotland to England a number of times to care for him and my Mother-in-Law and to sort things out after his death. I had to cancel a couple of gigs at short notice the week he died, but what else can you do? The band keep accepting gigs when I have told them I'm not available and playing them without bass, which for our particular lineup isn't going to work very well. I have told the band that I'm uncomfortable with this as I don't feel that going out like that represents us very well and I would prefer to feel like a core part of the band rather than an optional add-on. If anything I would rather they used a dep rather than going out bass-less. Two members of the band have responded to this by saying how disappointed they were in my limited availability recently and that they thought I must be losing interest, and this is when when I've already made my family situation quite clear to them. We have already disagreed a few times recently over which gigs we should accept, as our singer believes we need to say yes to everything in order to "make it". I have no concept of trying to "make it" and just want to play gigs which I enjoy. We haven't worked on any new material in over a year and it appears that my priorities are not the same as the rest of the band. I'm fond of this band, so it's a difficult choice to make. Looking at this description, what do people reckon? [/quote]


Oh no That's a pity... I love that band!
But, yeah, when you don't feel like you're "needed" it's not so much fun :-/
I can't believe they just went ahead and played without bass. The bass is so important in so many of your songs!

I don't like using deps in bands like Jen and the Gents, or SBK, etc. I feel that using a dep is not representing the band for what it is (no matter how great the dep is!). But in SBK, I (rarely) have someone else playing bass, if it's a gig we consider "important" and we really don't want to miss it. My view is that if it's really that important, all the more reason NOT to use a dep! But it keeps everybody else happy, and as long it's not used to book any regular gigs, I'm ok with that. It's been ok so far. You know my dep... it's Pete, now in NUF
He is someone I trust, is known to the band, and he may end up playing a couple of gigs a year perhaps.

If your bandmates are worried about your availability, maybe that's an option... although your availability issues are more than reasonable and I'm surprised they didn't understand and support you.

Working on new material... I'd get bored if all we did was play the same things over and over, without seeing a progression. I wonder if the fact that you changed drummer first and then guitarist made the band slow down a bit. I know that when we changed drummers in SBK (first in early 2011, then in early 2012) it felt like it took ages for us to move on...

As for which gigs to play... I love playing so I say yes to nearly all. Nearly. I'm not interested in playing lots of multiband gigs where you get a 30 min slot, 40 if lucky, that end up eating all your evening and give you little back. We don't always charge, and the amount we charge varies... but we tend to balance it so that we can play for free (or food and drinks and some petrol money) if it's fun and we don't require to bring much equipment and/or it's local, and we want more of a cash incentive if the logistics are more complicated... There are many gigs around Edinburgh that would see you playing to a handful of people for little or no cash (if you play often in a small city, you can't expect your followers to be there at every gig)... I'd rather not do those. Henry's Cellar? No thanks. It can be good if you organise it yourself, but it generally sucks when we join someone else's bill. I think being a bit choosy helps a lot. One thing that helped us a lot was getting regular slots at Whistle Binkies (one of the main music bars in town). WE started being offered 45min slots on a WEdnesday or later a Thursday, then we moved to better slots on better days... You get seen by a lot of people, and I think your band would do well there, but until you have a 2x45min worth of decent material you won't get the decent slots...

I don't know, sorry I just rambled... it's late, I'm tired and trying not to think about the referendum

I hope it's just a low point and that it gets better. That band would not be the same without your bass!

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1410775836' post='2552868']
Cheers guys. There are more responses here than I expected, almost too many to respond to individually but there are some good points there.
We had a solid couple of years where the gigs were really fun and we seemed to gather a bit of a following. I don't think that we're still at that point, as the gigs are drying up a little (one of the reasons the singer is keen to take every offer) and we're not rehearsing very often.
The singer gives the impression that she wants the band to be the main thing in her life, and I don't feel that I'm in a position to do that or that the band is actually ready for that. Had we jumped on it and gigged more widely a year or two back when things seemed to click a little better perhaps we might have been able to take it to that next stage, but we didn't. I do wonder if there's an element of denial over whether we've missed the boat there.
I'm about 6-8 years older than the rest of the band and I've watched friends get signed to labels, slog round rubbish venues staying in travelodges or on floors and end up in the same position they started in except distinctly jaded and frazzled round the edges. It seems like the ones who are happier have just continued to do their own idiosyncratic thing on the local scene to whatever niche following is around whilst carrying on with a relatively normal life. So that's the model I want to pursue, and happily that's more or less how my other projects operate.
It's difficult as the singer and the guitarist (who are a couple) are people I knew before we put the band together so whatever I do I need to keep it amicable. They got together at about the same time I met my wife and we've spent a lot of time together. I think I might suggest that they look for a new bassist, but agree to play out the remaining gigs we have booked and see how that goes down...
[/quote]


ah, if they are thinking of "making it big"... that could complicate matters, from what you say your outlook is (similar to mine, by the way).

I've been in various bands where that idea would be discussed from time to time, about the commitment and sacrifices we'd have to make... fortunately, we were never in a position for any of that to become real.

I'm happy with SBK, for example. We play locally a lot, and explore other cities, towns, villages and hamlets sometimes too (and the odd forest!), and that works for me. I have a day job that pays reasonably and I'm not in a hurry to quit. If suddenly SBK became big and we got a good financial offer, I would not mind touring around the world but... I know it's not going to happen. If the band wanted to start travelling up and down the UK regularly, I'd have to quit, because it would no longer be fun for me.

If the priorities have changed, and you're all friends... I suppose the sooner you discuss that the better, before the situation turns sour and it affects more than just the band.

But hopefully it's just a phase... it's a great band!

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1411088180' post='2556430']
Oh no That's a pity... I love that band!
But, yeah, when you don't feel like you're "needed" it's not so much fun :-/
I can't believe they just went ahead and played without bass. The bass is so important in so many of your songs!

I don't like using deps in bands like Jen and the Gents, or SBK, etc. I feel that using a dep is not representing the band for what it is (no matter how great the dep is!). But in SBK, I (rarely) have someone else playing bass, if it's a gig we consider "important" and we really don't want to miss it. My view is that if it's really that important, all the more reason NOT to use a dep! But it keeps everybody else happy, and as long it's not used to book any regular gigs, I'm ok with that. It's been ok so far. You know my dep... it's Pete, now in NUF
He is someone I trust, is known to the band, and he may end up playing a couple of gigs a year perhaps.

If your bandmates are worried about your availability, maybe that's an option... although your availability issues are more than reasonable and I'm surprised they didn't understand and support you.

Working on new material... I'd get bored if all we did was play the same things over and over, without seeing a progression. I wonder if the fact that you changed drummer first and then guitarist made the band slow down a bit. I know that when we changed drummers in SBK (first in early 2011, then in early 2012) it felt like it took ages for us to move on...

As for which gigs to play... I love playing so I say yes to nearly all. Nearly. I'm not interested in playing lots of multiband gigs where you get a 30 min slot, 40 if lucky, that end up eating all your evening and give you little back. We don't always charge, and the amount we charge varies... but we tend to balance it so that we can play for free (or food and drinks and some petrol money) if it's fun and we don't require to bring much equipment and/or it's local, and we want more of a cash incentive if the logistics are more complicated... There are many gigs around Edinburgh that would see you playing to a handful of people for little or no cash (if you play often in a small city, you can't expect your followers to be there at every gig)... I'd rather not do those. Henry's Cellar? No thanks. It can be good if you organise it yourself, but it generally sucks when we join someone else's bill. I think being a bit choosy helps a lot. One thing that helped us a lot was getting regular slots at Whistle Binkies (one of the main music bars in town). WE started being offered 45min slots on a WEdnesday or later a Thursday, then we moved to better slots on better days... You get seen by a lot of people, and I think your band would do well there, but until you have a 2x45min worth of decent material you won't get the decent slots...

I don't know, sorry I just rambled... it's late, I'm tired and trying not to think about the referendum

I hope it's just a low point and that it gets better. That band would not be the same without your bass!
[/quote]

We haven't sat down to have "The Conversation" yet and there's only so much I want to do via facebook messages, so I'm not out at this point, just leaning in that direction. What I have done is to make it clear I'm unhappy about the band going out without bass, to be told that the band will continue to do it anyway.
The band are playing without bass this Saturday for a gig which is being run by the organiser of a festival in May, in the hope that we get offered a gig at the festival. They haven't told the organiser that it won't be the full lineup which she's seen before. But they'll be playing without any bass to an audience of hippies who want to dance, and I don't see how that's going to make a good impression.
Without wanting to big myself up, I have put a lot into building the sound of this band and consider that without me it is not the same band. I don't think I'd be easy to replace without the band sounding very different either (not because I'm that great technically, but I think some of my idiosyncrasies are part of our sound). This band was a bit of a departure for me as prior to us forming I'd spent much more time gigging on double bass than electric and had never done anything as overtly pop as this, so I think my current playing style on electric bass has developed around the band to some extent. But the willingness to gig without any bass suggests that there is a perception that the band equals the singer plus whatever backing musicians are available that day, and that's not what I thought I'd been doing for these past few years.
You have some good points about venues - for a while we organised our own monthly night at the Banshee Labyrinth where we booked the bands and there were some satisfying gigs there despite the dinginess of the venue. We haven't tried Whistlebinkies for some reason, though 2 x 45 minute sets is something we can do as we've had quite a few pub gigs that ask for the same.

[Beer of the Bass]

An update; I'm meeting up with the band to discuss things later today. In the meantime the singer appears to have signed us up for an unpaid gig at a tiny venue in London next month (we're in Edinburgh, so massive effort and expense involved) and only asked the rest of us after the venue had already listed the gig. That's not going to help matters!

[Guest FretNoMore]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1411640422' post='2561385']
An update; I'm meeting up with the band to discuss things later today. In the meantime the singer appears to have signed us up for an unpaid gig at a tiny venue in London next month (we're in Edinburgh, so massive effort and expense involved) and only asked the rest of us after the venue had already listed the gig. That's not going to help matters!
[/quote]

Crazy behaviour, is he paying for the trip?

Just leave already.

[discreet]

[quote name='FretNoMore' timestamp='1411640725' post='2561388']
Crazy behaviour, is he paying for the trip? Just leave already.
[/quote]

Plus about a billion. I wouldn't be doing that one, and I live in London!

[IzzyT2807]

You haven't worked on new material in a year... and the singers concerned about "making it" ... I think its time to move on

[Bassman Steve]

I suspect the singer may be left on his own after the meeting - or he should be.

[Beer of the Bass]

Well, I'll be charitable and accept that it [i]could[/i] be a communications mix-up between the singer and venue. But even so, I feel like I've taken things as far as I wish to with this band, I've just been waiting for a face-to-face meeting to discuss that.

[TimR]

Some people just don't have any empathy. I went through a similar thing when my mum was terminally ill and ultimately died. One of the guys in the band just had no idea and kept having a go at my 'attitude'. I wasn't really focused on the band for some strange reason.

I would chill for a bit and wait now that things have calmed down. Air your concerns about the travelling and work out whether the rest of the band really want to make it big or they're just going with the (hopelessly misguided) singer.

Then go on without him.

Anyway, good luck this afternoon.

[RockfordStone]

I wouldn't be going from edinburgh to london, paid or not. Playing a gig in London is only as valuable as the venue you are playing. you can play to 5 people or 5000 people anywhere in the country, the fact that you are playing london doesn't make those 5 people any better than 5 people in edinburgh.

I'd tell him to jog on... but i'm a miserable git

[police squad]

when the cons outweigh the pros, it really is time to have a rethink.
I did this just over 5 1/2 years ago with the band I'd been in for 8 years. The guitarist has been a great friend of mine for over 20 years and I used to work for the Bass player in his music shop.
I really couldn't stand the roadie idiot that drove the van. He was there every gig being a complete tw*t, thinking he's important etc. I couldn't really get anything in the set that I thought would be good so in the end I gave them 3 months notice.
I have since depped with them (on vocals) a number of times and am singing with them this Saturday.

My point here, is that it's time for you to move on. You may, at some point, find yourself playing together in the future but at the present time, that isn't important.

Try something new that fits in better with your current situation

[mcnach]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1411640422' post='2561385']
An update; I'm meeting up with the band to discuss things later today. In the meantime the singer appears to have signed us up for an unpaid gig at a tiny venue in London next month (we're in Edinburgh, so massive effort and expense involved) and only asked the rest of us after the venue had already listed the gig. That's not going to help matters!
[/quote]


I'd probably be sugesting they play without bass again

Seriously? No asking first?

[JTUK]

I'd be first in the queue to maon about unpaid gigs, but have I got all this right..?
They want to 'make' it but will consider doing a festival date ( which I presume is to impress and advance the band etc etc )
without a bass player and not advise the promoter/booker.. ? I can't see the promoter/booker being impressed by that and that is not
giving said gig much respect. And if the gig doesn't warrant it...why are you doing it anyway?

I'd be asking for more deatils on the London gig.... I'd be doing that on everything else the guy put up as well, as it happens, but
if I wasn't convinced the London gig had a LOT going for it.. I'd be saying I was unavailable for that...on the basis that time off work, loss of leave, monies etc etc ...all on the back on the fact that you weren't asked. I might even be washing my hair that evening, as that seems to
be as much respect that is forthcoming from one or two in the band coming your way.

The way things seems to be presented and organised is just one big disaster gig waiting to happen, IMO

[witterth]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1410765512' post='2552730']
Focus whole-heartedly on what is most important to you at the present. If that is your family - then the band is just going to have to accept that. If they make a fuss, then they are not the kind of people you want to be spending your free time with IMO.

Best wishes to you and your family. It's s tough time
[/quote]
what happened to that "like" button? (nice sentiments and realistic comment, nice one C )