yelees Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Ok, I've read quite a lot on the new shuttle 6.0 and I'm definitely interested. My main reason is that I was about to jump into an SVT-CL / SVT-410HLF beast of a rig when I had an epiphany (pun intended)... I know I'm not going to match that all-tube, vintage goodness of an SVT amp / cab but until I can either afford to pay a roadie or a roadie offers his / her(!?) services for free, I'll compromise a little in order to not break my back... I'd like to get some power, as in, after experiencing the hell that it is to play a gig without being able to hear myself, I'm not going to be in that situation again. I'd also, playing rock predominantly, I like a nice warm, fat tone (Kings of Leon bass sound is sweet - Gibson Thunderbird into SVT-Cl / 810)? Cabs I'm looking at are: Epifani UL310 / UL410 / (maybe UL610?) Bergantino AE410 Genz 212 or 2 x 112 (some of you guys think the 2 x 112 is fatter?) Any advice would be great....especially as the nearest place I could try this stuff out looks to be about 2 1/2 hours away (5 hours round trip! ouch!)....I live in south east london / kent btw.... Thanks, Leo, P.S. Apologies if this exact question has already been asked but I HAVE done a lot of reading on here & talkbass and it seems everybody's looking for a clean / slap / funk tone...also, if you visit here & talkbass - I've posted this question on both sites (need a rig pretty soon!).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 (edited) Well I've just bought a UL310 to go with my soon to be arriving Shuttle 6.0. I can let you know what I think when it arrives (hopefully within the next couple of days). PS – Don’t worry about not replying about the cab Edited July 29, 2008 by benwhiteuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamster Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 I've listened to both the Epifani UL410 and the Bergantino AE410. Imho, and to my ears the Berg gives a better tone and projection. I've also listened to the Shuttle 6.0, which isn't bad at all. A few more tweaks to the controls and it will be really nice. For the warmness you're after I'd also consider the MarkBass LMII or SA450 PM Funkmunky - he uses a Berg AE410 and a Markbass SA450 head. Hamster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 [quote name='Hamster' post='250693' date='Jul 29 2008, 06:38 PM']I've listened to both the Epifani UL410 and the Bergantino AE410. Imho, and to my ears the Berg gives a better tone and projection. I've also listened to the Shuttle 6.0, which isn't bad at all. A few more tweaks to the controls and it will be really nice. For the warmness you're after I'd also consider the MarkBass LMII or SA450 PM Funkmunky - he uses a Berg AE410 and a Markbass SA450 head. Hamster[/quote] FWIW: I've listened to an Epi UL310 cab with a solid state head and thought it sounded very warm and full but the mid range wasn't that well defined. I've listened to a Berg 4x10 with a GB Neopak head (similar pre to the Shuttle) and the sound was warm with a well defined mid range. I've listened to a EBS Neo212 with my Shuttle 6 and also had a well defined mid range with perhaps less warmth but still a lot of B string authority. I like the idea of the GB neo 212 cab if it also offers a tight mid range. I've also tried the MB LMK and F1 head with the Berg and it sounded a touch warmer than the Shuttle but the midrange was slightly less defined. To be honest the differences could be wiped out by stage acoustics probably quite easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Not tried all the combinations you have listed but I am very happy with my rig, and I've not connected both cabs yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted July 29, 2008 Share Posted July 29, 2008 Bloody hell yelees, are you me?! KoL's bassist has the most amazing tone, but like you, the rig just isn't practical! The only problem with TBird>SVT is that it's probably one of the least versatile rigs you could get. I mean it isn't exactly coffee shop material! I use a Ashdown ABM>Epifani UL410, and I get some pretty good results (the ABM's good for this sort of stuff!), although I don't really have anything to compare it with, the only other rigs I've used were £200 laneys and beat up old Traces, and I didn't find them too appealing really! I've always been under the impression that Schroeder make a good 810 impression, but obviously smaller. Am I right in thinking this? I'd also have a look at Mesa, and maybe even Markbass with all those filters! I think a clean amp (markbass, EBS etc) with a pedal would work too. Could anyone give me any input on this? So yeah, my dilemma is just the same as Yelees, so could anyone help us out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='Welshbassist' post='250892' date='Jul 29 2008, 10:47 PM']Bloody hell yelees, are you me?! KoL's bassist has the most amazing tone, but like you, the rig just isn't practical! The only problem with TBird>SVT is that it's probably one of the least versatile rigs you could get. I mean it isn't exactly coffee shop material! I use a Ashdown ABM>Epifani UL410, and I get some pretty good results (the ABM's good for this sort of stuff!), although I don't really have anything to compare it with, the only other rigs I've used were £200 laneys and beat up old Traces, and I didn't find them too appealing really! I've always been under the impression that Schroeder make a good 810 impression, but obviously smaller. Am I right in thinking this? I'd also have a look at Mesa, and maybe even Markbass with all those filters! I think a clean amp (markbass, EBS etc) with a pedal would work too. Could anyone give me any input on this? So yeah, my dilemma is just the same as Yelees, so could anyone help us out?[/quote] Depending how much you dig KoL, I may well be you... I mean I liked them loads when their first album was out but a couple of days into their second album and I've been in love ever since. Thanks for your input. And please, call me Leo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='yelees' post='251129' date='Jul 30 2008, 11:09 AM']Depending how much you dig KoL, I may well be you... I mean I liked them loads when their first album was out but a couple of days into their second album and I've been in love ever since. Thanks for your input. And please, call me Leo.[/quote] Thought I'd add to the question: 1) Where can I buy Epifani UL cabs in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='yelees' post='251412' date='Jul 30 2008, 03:30 PM']Thought I'd add to the question: 1) Where can I buy Epifani UL cabs in the UK?[/quote] The Bass Gallery in Camden. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='251426' date='Jul 30 2008, 03:47 PM']The Bass Gallery in Camden. Alex[/quote] Just a thought as to volume, I'm not really up on the phsyics of the whole thing but would a 4x10 be pushing the most air? or is a 2x12 going to push out everything the shuttle has to offer anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='yelees' post='251430' date='Jul 30 2008, 03:50 PM']Just a thought as to volume, I'm not really up on the phsyics of the whole thing but would a 4x10 be pushing the most air? or is a 2x12 going to push out everything the shuttle has to offer anyway?[/quote] The amount of air a speaker can move is basically the speaker area (Sd) multiplied by the max speaker excursion (Xmax), and is referred to as Vd (volume displacement). The reason I went for 15" speakers in my designs is that suitable higher Xmax speakers are available - one fullrange 15" can move as much air as two 12"s or three 10"s (top quality ones that is), whilst my dedicated woofer 15" (that needs an additional midrange speaker for clarity) can move almost twice as much air as that! If you don't have much power then you need to maximise the sensitivity of your speakers - but with the power of the most modern bass amps you can drive most cabs to full volume (which is limited by how far the speakers can move). Don't simplify things to 10"s vs 12"s vs 15"s - the nominal diameter of a speaker is almost its least important parameter! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='251440' date='Jul 30 2008, 04:00 PM']The amount of air a speaker can move is basically the speaker area (Sd) multiplied by the max speaker excursion (Xmax), and is referred to as Vd (volume displacement). The reason I went for 15" speakers in my designs is that suitable higher Xmax speakers are available - one fullrange 15" can move as much air as two 12"s or three 10"s (top quality ones that is), whilst my dedicated woofer 15" (that needs an additional midrange speaker for clarity) can move almost twice as much air as that! If you don't have much power then you need to maximise the sensitivity of your speakers - but with the power of the most modern bass amps you can drive most cabs to full volume (which is limited by how far the speakers can move). Don't simplify things to 10"s vs 12"s vs 15"s - the nominal diameter of a speaker is almost its least important parameter! Alex[/quote] Thanks for a very informative post! Hmm... Ideally I need to have my cab delivered on 7th August, and I'm away between saturday 2nd and wenesday 6th so I pretty much need to make my choice this week and get an order in! Please keep the advice flowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 Ok I'm taking one of the list (due to the rated power of the ul310), I'm now looking at: Epifani UL310 (will cost me £796) Berg AE410 (£890 with a fitted cover) GB Neox 212T (£630 i think) Even though the 410 is hardly a beast to lug around, it would obviously be awesome if I could have just as much power / full range / tone from the little neox 212 but lacking the time to try them both out I need you guys! - or if you think the epi will pair best (especially to get that nice low end + some warmth), then that's cool too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Sorry mate but I for one am not going to tell you what to buy. I am going to tell you to make the effort to listen to the cabs you are interested in and buy the one you like best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='251497' date='Jul 30 2008, 05:48 PM']Sorry mate but I for one am not going to tell you what to buy. I am going to tell you to make the effort to listen to the cabs you are interested in and buy the one you like best.[/quote] That's perfectly reasonable, although I assure you I'm not the kind of person to flame somebody for such an offence if I've not had the opportunity to try something out myself. I've spent a bit of time on the phone to a dealer who seems to absolutely love the AE410 which I was kinda leaning towards anyway.... although he put a seed in my head: Now I'm stuck choosing between the Shuttle 6.0 and the MarkBass LMII!!! Bugger.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 The Shuttle 6.0 and the LMII are not really the same - the MarkBass R500 is most like the Shuttle 6.0. Having the two knobs on the Shuttle gives you great control over the valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yelees Posted July 30, 2008 Author Share Posted July 30, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='251512' date='Jul 30 2008, 06:07 PM']The Shuttle 6.0 and the LMII are not really the same - the MarkBass R500 is most like the Shuttle 6.0. Having the two knobs on the Shuttle gives you great control over the valve.[/quote] Yeah I like the ability to grit things up or smooth them out on the Shuttle.... I'm reading throught the 35 page LMII vs Shuttle 6.0 Thread at the mo and I'm reading a lot of comments that say things which suggest LMII = modern / sterile, Shuttle = Vintage / Warm. This is odd as the dealer I was speaking with was saying the exact opposite and he seems to know his stuff... and yeah I realise this is the downside of not being able to try things out! I might ask if I can buy both and send one back say within 14 days for a full refund....hmmm doubtful in this country but you never know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 The Shuttle can be clean or dirty, depending on how you fiddle with the knobs. Dont think the same can be said of the LMII. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted July 30, 2008 Share Posted July 30, 2008 Out of interest, what sort of "dirty" tones can you achieve with the Shuttle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted July 31, 2008 Share Posted July 31, 2008 There is a very smooth valve distortion if you turn the pre up (marked gain), light up the clip light, and turn the post (marked volume) down. There is also a master volume. Having the gain at 9 o'clock and the volume at 3 o'clock gives a nice clean sound. Having the gain at 3 o'clock and the volume at 9 o'clock gives a good tube distortion. Having both at twelve o'clock is nice and warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cetera Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I'd thoroughly recommend the GB Neox212T. A superb, lightweight cab with a huge sound..... & I'm sure it would be a perfect match for the Shuttle! I'm enjoying mine immensely.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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