Do speakers change audibly over time and use?

[Jazzjames]

Do you have any experience with speakers changing over time?

I was juat thinking if there comes a time when you should replace the speakers in your cabs when they have been used regularly. Thoughts?

I have an Aguilar tonehammer 500 paired with 2 DB112s, which is a great rig by the way, and sometimes I have to play it at pretty high volumes when the monitoring situation is less than ideal, and was wondering with time do speakers become tired and therefore don't respond in the same way as when they were new?

Thanks,

James

[Chienmortbb]

It is generally thought that speakers need a "running in" period of about 100 hours however a speaker that still sounds OK over many years is probably still OK. Your ears will tell you when you need to change.

[Magic Matt]

Yes, they change over time. I'm not sure they ever stop changing completely. Same is true of headphones, but to a smaller extent. .I think you'll start to hear if you're pushing the speakers too hard and damaging them that way, and if that's the case, back the volume off before you do long-term damage. Nothing is completely immune to gradual deterioration either though.

When I first had new HiFi speakers, I was a little disappointed, because they sounded a little "thin" compared to what I was expecting. After playing them in for a couple of weeks though (not continually obviously) they had changed quite significantly. I thought it was just me, but my Dad noticed it without even being prompted, to the extent he thought I'd taken them back and got replacements. Now, I always allow time for the speakers to play in and settle.

Speakers interact with the air - the air has humidity, heat, pressure... all that affects any material, and speakers are no exception. The rubber at the edge of my old HiFi speakers eventually disintegrated - that sounded really strange when it happened (hence why I bought new ones). I also had some in the car where the cones themselves started to go mouldy. They were sounding pretty dull by that point, but I replaced the car anyway, since it was also pretty knackered.

Obviously different materials offer different amounts of deterioration - the speakers in my car have some kind of plasticised stuff in the cones, hence are damp-proof far more than the paper cone ones were.

To my mind though, it's all about the sound - if a "knackered" speaker makes a noise I like, then I'm going to use it, and I'd rather get enjoyment from what I have and accept I might wear it out, than tip-toe around using it fully in case I damage it.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Jazzjames' timestamp='1411042348' post='2555833'] do speakers become tired and therefore don't respond in the same way as when they were new?
[/quote]The driver suspension softens indefinitely with use, but if anything that only enhances the bass response.

[BanditSid]

The old trick to get HiFi speakers to run in and reach their true sound as quickly as possible is to feed both speakers from the same channel of an amplifier, but have one speaker reverse connected (out of phase), then place them face to face touching each other......with them being out of phase most of the sound cancels and they can then be run at high volume levels with very little sound into the room. I've done this a few times, normally leaving them on when I go to work, it does help accelerate the process.

As for the OP, they do change over time - quite quickly in the first few gigs as they loosen up, giving better bass response, and much more slowly after that. Normally speakers are only replaced when they fail due to over driving the coil or an amp fault.

[JTUK]

I think you should expect them to last and perform well if kept in a dry
and reasonably stable temperature. I would suggest the cone and
the suspension and any terminals do not need too cold and/or humid
temps. So whilst keeping them in a garage during the summer is ok..
I wouldn't leave them in a garage all winter, myself.
And the older the chassis are, the harder it is to get cone kits or
find replacements so you have to get modern equivalents ..which
is possible, but why make this a factor with a degree of care..??

[Dad3353]

If we're not considering mis-use and abuse, our ears change more over time than most decent speakers. Our perception of sound alters in ageing; even more so if exposed to long-term ambient noise (work, gigs, concerts etc...). There are 50-year old cabs out there that have sounded fine for most of that time, and are unlikely to deteriorate for another 50 years, if treated correctly.

[Magic Matt]

Something I'm curious about, is whether speakers deteriorate quicker with lack of use. The reason I ask is that apparently quite a few modern rubber compounds need movement, otherwise they start to crumble. I first noticed it happened with shoes (trainers mostly) but then it also happens with the pads on headphones, and seemingly the rubber suspension on speakers. I don't understand why though.

[spacey]

What happens is dust gets in if they are vented drivers, this finds the gap and then you get a crackle and farting speaker.
On Black Widows you can unbolt them, clean the gap and away they go again.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1411044146' post='2555851']
Your ears will tell you when you need to change.
[/quote]

Well yes, if you can trust that it's not your ears that have changed.

Over a few decades, my bet would be on ears changing more than speakers.

[Jazzjames]

Thanks for the info everyone- very interesting!

[Bradwell]

The main thing will be that the surrounds need a running in period to loosen up but this applies to the initial period of use.

I suppose that depending on the material, for example; rubber may chemically denature over time, then they might change from not being used. A lot of guitar speaker cones have paper surrounds though.

Moisture and mould will adversely affect the rigidity of the cone. Basically you would want the cone to be as stiff as possible for it to be responsive and efficient (common sense applies, keep the cabs stored properly).

So long as they're not obviously damaged or being pushed too hard then keep the set up as is, I don't think there's any real reason to replace them. If you're still concerned then maybe try running some A/B tests with both cabs or checking them against another of the same model if you can loan one.

[Phil Starr]

The aging of speakers is relatively complex and a range of components will change over time. Any polymers used in the construction will continue to cross bond, that is there will be new chemical bonds formed between the long chain molecules that make up the plastic and rubber parts of the speaker, mainly at the cone surround. This is why plastics become brittle with age. The old foam surrounds used to be particularly prone to this and broke down after only a few years. The edges of the cones or even the whole cone may be treated with a damping material and of course the glues which hold the speaker together are also polymers subject to this process.

The wood pulp used in the cone will also age, cross-bonding between the fibres made essentially of lignin will increase but this will be overtaken by the physical breaking up of the fibres which will soften the cone over time. Actually speaker cones are not rigid pistons but are designed to flex at higher frequencies and in most bass speakers the surrounds are in any case formed from the same material as the cone itself. Most old speakers initially break down at the first roll in the surround. The fibres are mildly hygroscopic and absorb water from the atmosphere eventually swelling slightly. Then in high temperatures and dry conditions they will lose that water so go through a process of swelling and shrinking which further softens the material, the degree depends upon where you are in the world.

The cone will also accumulate dust and will get heavier, lowering the resonance. You'd also expect some colonisation by fungi especially in damp conditions.

Speaker coils also go through dramatic heat changes, reaching several hundred degrees during high power use this can end up distorting the coils and leading to failure of the speaker but will also heat the magnet. Depending upon the magnet material this can end up losing some power over time. Modern magnet materials and coil formers are designed to mitigate this and are pretty impressive though some 50's and 60's speakers may have lost a lot of power and drifted off spec.

You wouldn't expect any mechanical component moving thousands of times a second to last forever without wear. There will be changes in sound but they aren't usually dramatic and there are many bass players out there using vintage gear quite happily.

[Chienmortbb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1411049115' post='2555950']
I think you should expect them to last and perform well if kept in a dry
and reasonably stable temperature. I would suggest the cone and
the suspension and any terminals do not need too cold and/or humid
temps. So whilst keeping them in a garage during the summer is ok..
I wouldn't leave them in a garage all winter, myself.
And the older the chassis are, the harder it is to get cone kits or
find replacements so you have to get modern equivalents ..which
is possible, but why make this a factor with a degree of care..??
[/quote]A cold garage is not a problem but a damp garage is. Remember that the temperature change between room temperature and thermal
power will, be a much larger change than that from room temperature to even -10 celcius. As for ears changing faster than drivers, that is true and is noticeable for HiFi and PA systems but for most bass speakers, even my 10K limited 63 year old ears hold up well compared to most 8,10,12,15" drivers.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Chienmortbb

[chris_b]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1411632947' post='2561272']
A cold garage is not a problem but a damp garage is.
[/quote]

+1

Unless you have heating, all garages, sheds and outbuildings will get damp.

The only gear I keep in the shed are the hardcases for my basses. Apart from the lawnmower I keep all electrical equipment in the house.

[b7l4s]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1411067566' post='2556227']
What happens is dust gets in if they are vented drivers, this finds the gap and then you get a crackle and farting speaker.
On Black Widows you can unbolt them, clean the gap and away they go again.
[/quote]
Thanks spacey - I have a cab loaded with Black Widows that I was debating scrapping / selling as spares or repair because of crackle after a period of no use, but I'm going to try this now. You could have just saved me from doing something daft!

[JTUK]

[quote name='Chienmortbb' timestamp='1411632947' post='2561272']
A cold garage is not a problem but a damp garage is.
[/quote]

If you can regulate between the two.... big IF

This is why I say in winter bring it inside the house.