New Band... is it a keeper or time to walk?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1411242634' post='2557875']
You missed one.
[/quote]

He shoots, he scores. Yay!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1411242616' post='2557874']
The placement of that 'often' is bothering me but I'm not sure why.

Perhaps it's the distance from the verb to the adverb. Too far to walk but not worth getting the car out.
[/quote]

Yes, I had a doubt too, and was even tempted to split the infinitive, but then thought : 'Bugger it..!'

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1411242634' post='2557875']
You missed one.
[/quote]

Genuine oversight, congratulations. I'll shut up, then, eh..?

Edited September 20, 2014 by Dad3353

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1411242958' post='2557881']
Yes, I had a doubt too, and was even tempted to split the infinitive, but then thought : 'Bugger it..!'
[/quote]

An ambiguity surrounding the adverb's modificatory role led to this outcome. Do you 'often' like or do you 'often' correct?

If we assume the 'like' to be redundant we find the simplest resolution to be: 'He often corrects my spelling and Grandma'.


[size=3][b]Grammar Wars[/b]: Grandma Posters 'corrects' Dad3353[/size]

Edited September 20, 2014 by skankdelvar

[Grangur]

Back on subject, if one may be so bold, one reality that makes me want to stick with this band is it's better to learn and possibly mess up here than to go for a better band and get fired for not making the grade.

[dave_bass5]

I would also think it would be more self satisfying being able to take a song and add your own take on it, rather than just copy the original.
This could help keep things fresh and interesting.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1411249060' post='2557934']
Back on subject, if one may be so bold, one reality that makes me want to stick with this band is it's better to learn and possibly mess up here than to go for a better band and get fired for not making the grade.
[/quote]

There is that, plus as well as learning the songs properly, there`s the experience of then having to learn the band version. You`ll probably get a fair bit of experience with this set-up.

[Phil Starr]

Wait a bit and keep calm. I started playing when I was 55 and you have to ask the question how many people would have you? Secondly it always sounds awful because when you first play in a band you think it is going to sound like all the recordings you ever listened to the reality is without a proper mix and with all the problems of hearing each other it usually sounds much worse for the band than it would for the audience out front. Now playing with my fifth band I've adjusted to rehearsals and working with new bands. It takes time to sound good but after a few practices it should start to come together, if you are all experienced that happens quickly but if you have two people who are veryrusty/inexperienced you need to let it ride for a while and keep your expectations low at first.

In a couple of months you'll know if you are all improving and then you can make a decision if it is for you or not, unless you have another band waiting for you already you have nothing to lose and loads to learn so stick with it for a while and see if it goes anywhere.

As to not being able to learn your part because they move the goalposts, welcome to the world of musicians. At this level you are unlikely to have anyone with a sound grasp of musical theory or any language to describe what they hear in their heads. So many people talk about putting their own stamp on music but take that with a pinch of salt. As a bassist you can always get away with playing the root note in time with the drummer especially if you hit the first beat of every chord change. Once you have a half dozen practices you'll find very little changes and you can add to a basic bass line from then on.

Don't expect too much at first other than to get better at each rehearsal, don't criticise band members who are probably low in self confidence anyway and enjoy yourself, it will get better.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1411249060' post='2557934']
Back on subject, if one may be so bold, one reality that makes me want to stick with this band is it's better to learn and possibly mess up here than to go for a better band and get fired for not making the grade.
[/quote]

Sound reasoning. Thing is, it may be your first band but it's not going to be your last.

When train-wrecks occur or when the guitar and the keys go (musically) toe to toe just watch quietly and think of it as adding to your sum of knowledge.

[BigAlonBass]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1411228143' post='2557721']


It does strike me, though, that the keys and the guitarist are belting it out for attention all at the same time.
[b]Get used to it, some things never change![/b]

Actually it's all a bit all the same. (Or is it cos of my noob bass playing?)
[b]Quite possibly, but with every rehearsal, you're improving[/b]

But if each song is played in a different style to the original, how can I learn them?
[b]Take a small recorder of some description (H2 or suchlike), record the rehearsals, and play along to 'their versions' at home.[/b]

The keys and the leader have played together in bands for about 50 years, but they don't seem to be able to take it in turns to solo and stand back to give room for the other.

[b]See first reply.[/b]

The keys player sounds like some wurlitzer organ on a bad night at a holiday camp.
[b]Sacrilege, I know, but on certain songs, so does Jon Lord.[/b]

The guitarist sounds like a Hank Marvin wannabe on speed. (He has a C&W background btw)
[b]He might actually be on a steep learning curve as well, trying new (to him) things, and be almost as worried as you. [/b]

[/quote]
Give it time. Things may improve, they may not, but you're learning all the time, and I don't just mean new songs.

[JTUK]

Building blocks and experience is what it is worth.
I know a few bass players who can't handle a blues gig...and they
are in reasonable bands and comfortable only in thier preferred genre.
Not so much their fault but they could have helped themselves more
doing time in an enviroment that would teach them a broader
musical base.
So, once you play rock and roll 12 bars, you'll know there is only
a stylistic take to be able to transfer that to Blues 12 bars and then
that a huge range of musical influnce covered and/or experienced.
Move that over to a few jazzer playing 'Chicago' and 'John B Goode'
has taking you some distance.
I am all for bass players getting out there and playing..and making mistakes..
in order to get a basic grasp of being a rounded player.
So many don't...they either miss the chance or turn it down as not their thing
which is why their playing is always short-sighted, IMO.
Every situation is a potential education, even if it only teaches you how
not to do it

[Grangur]

Thanks to everyone for aome great advice. You've got me feeling a lot better about this band. Thry say "Rome wasn't built in a day". I can't go in on week 3 and tell them all how to do it, but maybe we can build something good.

There was a point in the last rehearsal when the drums started a solid blues 4/4 and I started a 12 bar and a jam started. It sounded real cool for about 4 bars, until the leader stopped and said, "OK what are we going to play next?"

If we can recapture that fresh sound and take it on. We could make something.

[paulbass]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1411228700' post='2557728']
You humour them; meanwhile go back to your [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] local music emporium and keep looking at the ads. The good news..? You're gaining experience with these folks. The bad news..? You're not going to change them. Get what you can from it, but look elsewhere.[/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Just my tuppence-worth; and good luck with your projects.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

This gets my vote....you'll only end up pulling your hair out! Meanwhile try and get a groove going in the tracks that you are doing and try and lock onto the drummer. There is certainly no harm in actually learning the tracks note for note from the records as you may learn more from this and playing in different styles in a band situation and only improve your imagination and improvisation.
Good Luck and enjoy your new found instrument

[UglyDog]

What's very telling here is that not once have you said that you are [b]enjoying[/b] it. Frankly it really sounds like the opposite. Personally I'd wish them all the best and leave now.

[TimR]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1411228143' post='2557721']
...
If I were to walk into a pub though, and we were on stage, I don't think I'd stay to buy a drink.
...
[/quote]

Have they gigged with a previous bass player?

It's a great opportunity for you to learn to use your ears. Which is what it's all about. When you step into a gig situation and a song misses a chorus or an extra verse appears or the drummer stops the song early, these are the skills you need.

If the keys and guitar are overplaying and competing for space then they've not developed their ears and you probably need to tactfully point it out when you finish the song when it happens. Just do this on one song a practice or you'll get their backs up. Just a gently "I think the bit in the middle sounded a but messy, can we go over what we're all playing there?"

Also listen carefully to the others while you are playing (bass players do this very well and IMO it's why so many bass players become producers) work out whether the songs are being played as a band and rather than playing whole songs from top to bottom, you may have to pull apart small sections.

That's the difference between home practice, band practice and band rehearsal. As alluded to the quote you raise. Very few bands 'only' rehearse, most get the home practice done, maybe spend two or three run throughs in practice then 'rehearse' by playing the tune top to bottom. Then after the gig decide if any tunes need more practice time (home or band time).

Edited September 21, 2014 by TimR

[Marvin]

I'd stick with it for now and see if things improve.

[GrahamT]

It is only when you play your set to an audience that you will get true feedback on how you are performing as a group. What seems to work in practice can sometimes fail live, and visa versa.

We have had very positive comments about some songs that frankly I was doubtful about, whilst some that I really enjoyed and considered to be strong bombed heavily when played live.

I think that it is all about personal perspective and expectation - yours as well as the rest of your band members.

Does each of you have an equal voice when discussing arrangements, song choice etc? In my band, when we brought in a new drummer recently, the first thing we said was that he had an equal share in how and what we play, and that his opinion was welcomed. It is always refreshing to have the input of others, whether they have been playing in a band for 10 years or 10 minutes.

[scalpy]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1411290822' post='2558098']
What's very telling here is that not once have you said that you are [b]enjoying[/b] it. Frankly it really sounds like the opposite. Personally I'd wish them all the best and leave now.
[/quote]

Even if you're not enjoying it, give everyone the impression you are. You can turn around the whole atmosphere of a rehearsal with a bit of positivity and it makes it ten times easier to deliver any criticism. A session drummer I once had a conversation with, number 1 hits in Europe to his name etc, told me any session he does is always the absolute best thing he's ever played, even if he's playing the most mediocre material with any old muso. There's no barrier because of experience to not adopt that mentality.

[Les]

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1411287831' post='2558064']
I can't go in on week 3 and tell them all how to do it,
[/quote]

You can actually.

[hubrad]

As a few have said, chemistry is actually a big thing.. I got one of my current gigs over coffee! We had a full band run-through schedule, but on the morning of that very day something came up in the guitarist's working schedule (knowing him better now, I'd say totally genuine), so the run-through was off. As it was, my new coffee machine had just arrived, so the drummer and frontman came round to ours, to help me 'get used to the controls'.. within a couple of double espresso shots, the drummer was looking distinctly pale, while the frontman absorbed plenty over a couple of hours. They then mentioned the idea of doing some recording, and was I into it? Sure, says I, but we haven't actually played together yet.. no probs, says they, you fit in fine!
Back to the OP, I'd say stick with it if you're enjoying it, move on if not. It has to work for all concerned. I actually quite like the idea of doing different versions of classic songs, as long as the band makes it a valid different version. Hey, plenty of those classic artists did it with their own songs, just to keep it fresh. Johnny B.Goode is a fine song, but playing it every night for years on end must get a little stale. Often gets turned into a bit of a guitarists' w@nkfest!

[hubrad]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1411294801' post='2558145']
Even if you're not enjoying it, give everyone the impression you are. You can turn around the whole atmosphere of a rehearsal with a bit of positivity and it makes it ten times easier to deliver any criticism. A session drummer I once had a conversation with, number 1 hits in Europe to his name etc, told me any session he does is always the absolute best thing he's ever played, even if he's playing the most mediocre material with any old muso. There's no barrier because of experience to not adopt that mentality.
[/quote]
Hup! :-)

[Doddy]

It sounds like a pretty typical first band experience to me. Everyone goes through it, the only differenc is you are doing it at 55
rather than 16. You've having a new experience of playing with new people and are finding your feet in the situation.
You've rehearsed with twice and have not been in a band before...why would you be thinking about leaving? Because you've
recognised a couple of things that you've read about on bass forums? I can understand you questioning things if you had
previous experience of playing in bands, but you don't.
Sorry if sounds a bit harsh...it's not meant to. Stick with it, learn from it and enjoy playing in your first band.

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1411291731' post='2558112']
Have they gigged with a previous bass player?


[/quote]

Have they gigged at all, You did mention that 2 had played together for years, but that doesn't necessarily mean seriously gigging does it ?

[Grangur]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1411303421' post='2558240']
Have they gigged at all, You did mention that 2 had played together for years, but that doesn't necessarily mean seriously gigging does it ?
[/quote] They've previously had 2 female singers and 2 bass players (1 died, 1 was much younger and couldn't play, apparently)
They've never spoken in terms of "that gig we did at..."

@ UglyDog; Good point. Yes, I do enjoy it. Certainly given all the comments here I'm going to give it a few more weeks and see if they are as open to suggestions as the leader says he is.

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1411294801' post='2558145']
Even if you're not enjoying it, give everyone the impression you are. You can turn around the whole atmosphere of a rehearsal with a bit of positivity and it makes it ten times easier to deliver any criticism. A session drummer I once had a conversation with, number 1 hits in Europe to his name etc, told me any session he does is always the absolute best thing he's ever played, even if he's playing the most mediocre material with any old muso. There's no barrier because of experience to not adopt that mentality.
[/quote]
I do, I do! It's always better to keep the enthusiasm up as much as I can. I'm sure of that. I also know it's better to give folk a compliment before giving the bad news. Such as to the keys player: "I like the solo you played in Xxxxxx. Just a thought here; as (Guitarist) is here playing rhythm, have you thought of trying that solo without playing the chord in the background as the same time? I'm just thinking it may give a crisper sound."

@ Doddy; True, true. I've not read many such threads. Your comment is open and honest and welcomed.

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1411297605' post='2558179']
.....I'd say stick with it if you're enjoying it, move on if not. It has to work for all concerned. I actually quite like the idea of doing different versions of classic songs, as long as the band makes it a valid different version. Hey, plenty of those classic artists did it with their own songs, just to keep it fresh. Johnny B.Goode is a fine song, but playing it every night for years on end must get a little stale. Often gets turned into a bit of a guitarists' w@nkfest!
[/quote] Good point. Actually All of our tracks are either a w@nkfest for the guitarist or the keys-man. Right now all the good bass lines are already being done on the keys. I recon this is due to them not having a bass-man for a while. I've started working on the solos and bass-lines, so I can justify winning them back to the bass. If I don't then I'll be stuck on I, 3, 5, 3 (e.g.) forever.

Something I know those 2 don't enjoy is singing all the numbers. I'm working on the lyrics too. If I can get to sing a few, they'll want, even more, to keep me - giving me more power and influence.

[UglyDog]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1411294801' post='2558145']
Even if you're not enjoying it, give everyone the impression you are. You can turn around the whole atmosphere of a rehearsal with a bit of positivity and it makes it ten times easier to deliver any criticism.
[/quote]What's the point of doing it at all if you're not enjoying it?

[scalpy]

[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1411315325' post='2558349']
What's the point of doing it at all if you're not enjoying it?
[/quote]

Do it in the hope it becomes enjoyable, the rewards don't come cheap. You reap what you sow and all that.