Guinness21 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Firstly, I know someone's started this thread on talkbass, but that was more of an open discussion whereas I'm seeking advice. I've just joined a new band, whose influences include pearl jam, foo fighters and alice in chains. I've decided that I want a slightly dirty sound that if needs be I can di. I've narrowed the contenders down to the vt bass di and the vmt deluxe (I like the b7k, but I play a stingray and think it would sound too metallic and raspy). I've found this video - the guy's playing the same bass as me so helps get a clearer idea - and I love this guy's sound! [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ONEaEg5JI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_ONEaEg5JI[/url] I decided on these two specifically because my stingray is unsurprisingly bright, and while both these pedals can produce grindy sounds I want something possibly a bit warmer/vintage-y. At some point down the line I may bring in a designated heavy overdrive pedal; if I get the vt bass then maybe the darkglass vmt, if I get the vmt deluxe then maybe I bring in another darkglass pedal. I think if you could switch between 2 settings on the darkglass then I'd go for it, but unfortunately that isn't the case. So what do you guys think? Now you know everything about my gear and the kind of music I'll be playing, which would be better suited? Or is there something better suited that I'm not considering? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 If you love that guys sound, and have the same bass, get the same pedal as well - which he says is the VT. Admittedly whatever amp he has will play a factor - unless he was recording straight from pedal that is. The VT DI can do really nice rounded warmth, think Motown sounds, as well as the famed sound most think of. A lot more versatile than many would think, not all Ampeg sound is about grind, and the VT DI does a good variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) If you're comparing a VT bass DI against the VMT Deluxe i would actually recommend looking out the VT Bass Deluxe as you then get 6 presets (2 banks of 3) or the option to have 2 Basses connected and have 3 presets for each bass dialled in. I have one and did a factory reset as i just wanted to see what it would do without me fiddling. The sounds are EPIC straight out of the box. You'll get on in the 2nd hand section here from £150-180ish depending what a rush they are in to sell. I'd have this over a VMT deluxe as you can then have many different sounds out of the 1 pedal without having to fiddle with it on stage. Just my 2 pennies worth. Pretty boring demo but this gives you a good run through (maybe not the best sounds dialled in but there are many good demos around [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUYMbqFrdVk"]https://www.youtube....h?v=YUYMbqFrdVk[/url] Edited September 22, 2014 by The Badderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 Thanks guys Well looking on the talkbass forum, part of what's being putting me off the vt, people said the treble is really harsh and clank. That's the last thing I want! Can that be dimmed down, or is that treble baked in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 it only becomes harsh and clanky if you really wind it up. Obviously this is fairly subjective to the person and bass being used. You have a tone control over the treble so you can really subdue the treble. It's very much to individual taste but i have no problems with the sound mine makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 This is probably a good video for you to watch. I have a Corvette $$ and it has a notoriously hot signal (not meaning bright, but it does have a lot of strength to its signal) this gives you an idea of the level of control you can have. Note the individual controls over High's. This will probably have identical sounds to the VT bass deluxe as Tech 21 don't really change their sound that much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPHZjrf1CkQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 ...... ^^^^ although be aware this pedal does have Blend and Bite controls that the VT Bass Deluxe doesn't have. But the overall sound of the pedal won't be much different as it will be the same type of sound and system used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Thanks guys for the response. Tbh I think the deluxe is overkill, and it's way too big for me. Those videos are great Badderer, how do you find yourself using it most? [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PAhzVp6Ic"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03PAhzVp6Ic[/url] This is the only good video for the vmt deluxe that I can find. While I love the full blown sound at 1:33 in the video, realistically I'd more likely be using the sound from 1:57 onwards. What do you think, comparing that sound to the tech 21 vt mild warm setting? [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emFyuS73jEI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emFyuS73jE[/url]I Just found this video, surprised me actually. The vintage warm and tube grit settings seem to be more subtle than the vmt deluxe equivalent. He's using an american deluxe jazz bass, so it's active, but a stingray is a lot brighter. Maybe the b7k would be a better bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I've always wanted to get a Darkglass either B3K or B7K. I've never got round to getting one. If you're after a control that is less coloured then i believe you're after the B7K. The VMT will be coloured to sound like the vintage amps etc from the various era's they are trying to emulate, where as the B7K is more a pure pedal that isn't designed to sound like something else. This is also true of the VT Bass stuff, it is all designed to emulate an SVT. I believe Tech 21 Sansamp pedals are less coloured and sound like Tech 21 Sansamp, whereas Tech 21 VT Bass pedals will be coloured to sound like an SVT. I would say a B7K might be the sound you're after and people only have great things to say about them, and if it's not right for you, you can just sell it on for the same price you paid for it (if you got it 2nd hand) and all you'll have lost is the postage. Just picking up your point about the VTBass deluxe, I get what you mean, just remember that in a gig situation you only get one sound out of these pedals (unless you change your settings in the middle of the gig with some drawn out diagrams and fiddle on the floor, not something i've ever wanted to do). So for me i went for a VT Bass deluxe because then I have 6 sounds but only taking up the room of 3 midsized pedals and it is all programmed in before the gig so you can sound check it and have a predictable sound, whereas it only takes a couple of knobs to not be in the right setting and that carefully tweaked sound all of a sudden doesn't sound right. I have used it both at the front of the pedal chain after the compressor to provide a bit of grit before other pedals, and i've also used it at the end of the pedal chain as a kind of adding the VT bass sound to the pedals after they've had the true bass signal. If is really useful for those times where the band drop out and it's bass and drums so you want a bit of a boost in volume and you can add some edge because you're not having to leave room for the guitar sounds. There are some songs you want a heavier bass sound and some where you want a less bassy sound and more mid and treble sound. That's where i use the different settings. I basically normally have it on in some shape or form unless i'm on a chilled out song where the naked bass tone with some modulation pedals are called for. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well, I think the best plan of action may well be an svt-type sound out of the vt bass di, and then when i have the money get a b7k for those more overdriven sounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mingsta Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Great thread guys...this has been really useful to me too as there's not much opportunity to A/B these pedals side by side. Badderer, have you tried putting your pedals through the effects loop on the VT Deluxe? Do you know if the FX loop comes before or after the preamp section? I need to switch between two basses, so the VTD would have to be at the start of the chain. But if I want to also DI out from the VTD (admittedly not something I do all that often), presumably I'd have to put the other pedals in to the VTD's effects loop. Hope that makes sense! Also does anyone ever use these pedals to go in to an existing Preamp/Amp setup (rather than DI'ing in to a PA or straight in to a power amp). I normally go in to a Genz Benz streamliner for small gigs so was wondering what a tubey preamp pedal going in to the tubey preamp on the Streamliner would do to my tone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 You could buy both pedals and sell or return the one that you like the least? If you buy new over here you can return it for free no questions asked - beauty of the distance selling regulations. Alternatively if you buy used you can sell on for the same price and just take a small hit in the postage. Or you could buy new from the US and sell used for the same price over here! And if you don't have the cash to splash out on two at once - that's what credit cards were invented for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I use the VT DI into my Markbass CMD121 combo. Sounds great, but I do have all the settings flat, and get my sound from the pedal. I`ve also used it in this way with many provided rigs and it has sounded great, though no Genz gear so can`t offer any user experience there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Hahaha fair point dannybuoy! You know how the di version of the vt has the bite button? Is that sound baked into the standard vt? Because I'd never want that presence boost. If I bought the vt bass di the drive knob would also be kind of pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Yes, I think the bite sound on is the standard VT Bass sound, so you can get less treble bite out of the DI version. Why would the drive knob be pointless? Most important knob on the pedal! Also, I don't know if it's just me, but I had the original which I sold, then got a v2 which sounded totally different, sold that and got the DI version which again sounded like the v2... I couldn't get the same sound as the original, which I preferred. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 The bite control is switchable on the VT DI. Yes the VT DI can go very trebly and cutting, but the controls that allow that wok the other way too, you can get very nice warm, rounded mellow tones from it. It`s one of those things where, due to youtube demos only showing cutting trebly tones, it can appear that that`s all it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 [quote] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Badderer, have you tried putting your pedals through the effects loop on the VT Deluxe? Do you know if the FX loop comes before or after the preamp section? [/font][/color] [/quote] I have not confirmed it through research, but i am 95% certain it is post the preamp section of the pedal i.e. you get the dirt into the fx loop. I could be wrong but i think that is right.... http://www.tech21nyc.com/support/manuals/sansamp/CharacSeries-VT_DLX-OM.pdf it doesn't say in the manual but i only skip read it then. With regards to using the fx loop it can take a bit of getting used to. You have to do a double push of the A/B switching button to turn it on or off, and sometimes you can leave it switched on when you thought it was off. personally i don't use the fx loop as i like predictability and i haven't practiced enough with it to use it reliably in a gig situation. if i practiced with it a bit more i might get used to it, but i am actually switching to MIDI controlled looper switcher system to control my pedals http://www.thomann.de/gb/g_lab_gsc2_system_controller.htm have a look at this as a great piece of kit for having two basses and an fx loop to switch on and off http://bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/LEHLE_BAss_IQ.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Well when I say the drive would be pointless, that's probably a bi of an exaggeration. The way I intend to use it would be to have the character right up, with next to no drive. Just t achieve that warmer sound. Well I'd like to be able to turn the bite off, so that's ruled the standard vt out. Not heard anything like that before dannybuoy, what about the latter two sounded different/not as good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Hard to describe, but where I had the knobs set to get a flat EQ on the v1 was different, and the overdrive sound didn't sound as good on the later ones somehow. Maybe my v1 was just unique! Also, the character right up will give you a really nasty high mid boost, not really warm at all. You'll see when you get it, it will hurt your ears cranking it past 1 o'clock! You can still sort of turn the bite off on the other VTs. When you disengage the speaker sim (which you would typically want to do to open up the treble), Tech21 thought it would be a good idea engage a low pass filter to make it sound even darker than it did with the speaker sim on. In the latest DI version they have separate these functions to different buttons, so you can disable the 5k rolloff of the speaker sim, and the 'bite' button is that same low pass filter that used to be paired with the speaker sim button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 That's food for thought, thanks for the post. I'm not mad on the drive sound of the vt di, and if you can't crank the character then maybe I need to think again. From a couple of videos I've seen I get the impression that I like both the subtle and all-blazing tones of the b7k, and I don't know whether I can say that about the vt di Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Guiness to help you out. The VT pedals don't behave like normal pedals (which is why some people might say they are clanky). Subtle adjustments lead to big changes in sound. If you crank either the drive or character or level knobs too much you will get some over the top sounds. you can get warm and subtle out of the pedal, but you just have to be sensitive with your adjustments to the knobs. Some pedals only achieve certain sounds by big adjustments to levels. this is different. it is a very intuitive pedal but you need to get your hands on it. All of that being said you may be better off with a B7K. If i was forking out the best part of £200 for a VT DI and wasn't 100% on the sounds, i'd spend the extra money and get a 2nd hand B7K for £250ish. For me i have a fair few pedals to do OD and Fuzz sounds so i'm only gonna spend the money on a B7K when it makes sense for me, but if I was looking at the pedals without owning anything in that ballpark i'd be more interested in the B7K from the overall write ups / reviews. The tech 21's are awesome but if you're having doubts about the character of sounds you'll get out of it then i'd be going the other way. Edited September 23, 2014 by The Badderer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinness21 Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Thanks Badderer, you've really helped clarify my thoughts. Initially, I just saw that video and thought "that guy's playing a bass like mine and it sounds good with that pedal". But now I think I have a better sense of what it would be like to live with any variation of the vt, but also I think I have a clearer idea of the sound I'm chasing. Whether it's subtle and warm, or full-blown od I think the b7k would suit me better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Badderer Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 glad to help man. i've been where you're at looking at pedals and just wondering... what the hell should i do. sometimes just tossing ideas around here can take you in a new direction and save you buying the wrong thing. sometimes it is the start to a world of buying pedal after pedal as you start to realise what one can do for you, sometimes all you need is one or two pedals. Either way it's fun thinking about the options the most important thing is that you're getting what you want for the sound you're after. i've bought numerous pedals having seen a video and thinking it would be great. Some have worked out great, some i've tried and just thought... this really isn't going to make a single sound i can use. Enjoy it when you get it and give us a run down on how you find it. I'd love to have a B7K! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderpaws Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Excellent thread. Just interested in a comparison with another pedal too versus the VT. The Catalinbread SFT is supposed to model the SVT too. How would you compare the SFT and the VT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 The SFT is modelled on an older SB12 Portaflex - it also sounds nothing like the VT Bass. Check out some demo videos on YouTube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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