Neo , Ferrite , Confusion

[funky8884]

I have 3 questions Ladies and Gentlemen ,

I am having trouble understanding current speaker trends relating to Bass Cabs.

Are Neo speakers designed to be used with high power amps ( 500W + ) ?

Are the new Ferrite speakers light weight or are the new cabs lighter than the 80's 90's era cabs ?

And finally are the new Ferrite loaded cabs designed for use with low power amps ?

These may seem silly questions but have plagued me for weeks

Any clarification will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Wade

[LukeFRC]

two different materials to make magnets with - neo is lighter and can be stronger than ceramic. Ceramic is heavier and what has been traditionally used.
power and cooling etc is more down to the driver design than the type of magnet used.

[Phil Starr]

Yep the magnet material makes no significant difference as far as performance is concerned. All other things being equal the more powerful the magnet the smaller the cab needs to be and the louder the speaker will be. Powerful magnets cost, neo doubly so.

Powerful ceramic magnets are very heavy though so its a trade off between the weight saving of the cab versus a heavier magnet or high cost neo.

The trouble is there is another fashion for flatter more extended bass response running alongside the move to lightweight. To get this you trade efficiency so you need bigger more powerful amps for the same sound level.

So, modern means neo and modern means more[size=3] amp [/size][size=4]power, but for two different reasons.[/size]

[funky8884]

Thanks Chaps, I forgot about the flatter , exteded frequency response.

[Guest monsterthompson]

the neo world got bigger because it was a legit way to cut weight in a bass cab (ignoring that a lighter magnet has benefits in the start/stop department) and bass cab weight is an issue. the problem is that the materials cost went way up in recent times, so builders who adopted the material have moved away from it. there are sonic differences as well, but the cost vs weight factor has been a huge part of the trend.

Edited September 26, 2014 by monsterthompson

[Chienmortbb]

Magnets do not move whether they are ceramic or conventional ferrite materials.The coil is the moving part.
Neos do allow the designer more scope with both the shape and size of the magnet but two magnets of equal length and with the same magnetic properties will give the same sound with the same coil, cone, surround, spider, basket when mounted in the same cabinet.

[Guest monsterthompson]

hmm. I always had the impression the magnet moved, but I never actually researched the design. that makes sense.

[funky8884]

So from what I can decipher from the post is that Neo drivers require more power than a Ferrite driver, but still haven't found out if the ferrite drivers used today are the same as the ones used decades ago ?

[wateroftyne]

I like ceramic drivers. My cab is lightweight, so it's a good combination.

[funky8884]

I have been looking at the TKS stuff,

WOT do you find the ferrite's a good match for the walkabouts 300W ?

[wateroftyne]

It's a match made in heaven. I didn't want to go down the Neo route for my own reasons. I'd nearly given up on finding ferrite drivers in lightweight boxes, but I stumbled across the TKS stuff just in time. They've got so much life and authority - I never worry about the WA running out of steam.

[funky8884]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1412011940' post='2564856']
It's a match made in heaven. I didn't want to go down the Neo route for my own reasons. I'd nearly given up on finding ferrite drivers in lightweight boxes, but I stumbled across the TKS stuff just in time. They've got so much life and authority - I never worry about the WA running out of steam.
[/quote]

Great ! thanks.

[JTUK]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1412008712' post='2564807']
I like ceramic drivers....
[/quote]

Me too, I have 'decent' NEO's but I keep them as the lightweight option, but I find myself
leaving them at home A LOT.

Once I clear them out, I will probably go with a couple of S112's with a horn option....
Ceramics in a quality box sounds ideal to me.

[chris_b]

Unless you have to worry about weight, listen to as many cabs as you can and decide by the sound.

[funky8884]

Weight is a consideration so can go modular , it seems GK, TKS , and Barefaced have lightweight ferrite's available so we may see some great sounding , lightweight more affordable cabs appearing soon .

[jimcroisdale]

Glad I got a NEO cab when they were relatively cheap! perhaps one day the neodymium in my drivers will be worth enough to retire on... :-)

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='funky8884' timestamp='1412765665' post='2571726']
Weight is a consideration so can go modular , it seems GK, TKS , and Barefaced have lightweight ferrite's available so we may see some great sounding , lightweight more affordable cabs appearing soon .
[/quote]

It looks like the DIY design being put together in the 1x12" diary thread leans in that direction too. The Beyma driver they used looks very capable for the money and appears to compare well to many of the popular Neo drivers.

[funky8884]

I had a quick squiz over the 12" diary but haven't checked it lately , better gave a peek - thanks !

[Graham]

[quote name='jimcroisdale' timestamp='1412766337' post='2571744']
Glad I got a NEO cab when they were relatively cheap! perhaps one day the neodymium in my drivers will be worth enough to retire on... :-)
[/quote]

Unlikely, global neodymium prices have been going down the last couple of years.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Graham' timestamp='1412790238' post='2572121']
Unlikely, global neodymium prices have been going down the last couple of years.
[/quote]+1. The Chinese, having a corner on the neo market, tried to take advantage of that by price gouging. All that they accomplished was to push the price up enough for other countries to resume mining it, including the US, where it was classified as a strategicly critical material, causing an easing of the restrictions on mining it here. In short, the Chinese shot themselves in the foot.
BTW, there's no inherent difference in the sound of neo magnet versus ceramic drivers. Neo magnet drivers may sound different primarily because they are all recent designs, using the latest design techniques, as opposed to ceramic driver designs that may be as much as 40 years old.
BTW part II, the major impetus for neo drivers wasn't light weight where finished drivers is concerned. It was for the light weight of the magnets, which are also primarily manufactured in China, be they ceramic or neo. It was the high price of shipping said ceramic magnets to driver manufacturers halfway around the world that first resulted in the popularity of neo. Very little neo by pecentage is used by the loudspeaker industry, most is used in hybrid electric car motors and electric generating windmills.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[BanditSid]

I spent quite a few years in the 80's lugging around a Carlsbro 2x15 bass cab, old magnet technology and very heavy. I've recently moved from an newer style heavy Trace combo/extension speaker to GK Neo cabs, the weight difference is the first thing you notice with Neo cabs - quite a bit lighter. To answer the OP's first question I run my 4x10 and 1x15 pretty hard from a GK MB800 and they have never complained, they always sound well in control. I think some of the weight reduction is also due to lighter build techniques, they seem to have thinner ply with better bracing - maybe they've finally realised we want lighter cabs that deliver and not just the cheapest ply box they can throw together.