Tips for learning how to do backing vocals while playing

[BassYerbouti]

So I've been gigging with this band for a couple of years now and we could really do with some harmonies to back up the singer. I can lean in and yell the occasional couple of words of a chorus now and again but as soon as I try to do more than that, my playing goes to pieces. I know I'll have to practice and practice but can anyone recommend any tips/short-cuts to help overcome this please?

[Phil Starr]

I'm struggling to do the same thing, not helped by a poor pitch control so i need to concentrate on the singing and controlling my breathing.
Three tips:

Practice the singing along with a recording without the bass, you have muscle memory there too as I found out when I practised in a different key to the band. If it's in memory you can spare a bit of attention to the bass too.

Really mark the bit of the bass line the first word of the lyric sits over and make sure your bass and the vocal are locked in at that point, practice both with a drum machine if you can.

Simplify the bass line and follow the vocal line with the rhythm, may not be ideal but far better than the bass losing timing altogether.

I'll be watching for tips here myself.

[paul_5]

I started by deliberately playing the starting note of my vocal line high up on the bass - you know - just coincidentally at the end of a run or similar...

At the start simplify the bass line too, unfortunately it's the least important thing to most punters.

[martin8708]

I have always found singing and playing bass a lot harder than singing whilst playing guitar .
There is always the strong temptation to sing the words on every beat , you have to try and lift the vocal away from the bass line so you are in effect " multi-tasking " .

Try to learn the bass line so well that you don't even have to think about it , so it just comes automatically .
This will then allow you to concentrate on the vocals , the correct pitching and phrasing .

Start with a simple bass line , this will again free your concentration for your singing .
Watch youtube vids of the masters of singing /playing , Sting and Mark King come to mind .
Yolanda Charles has a very good tutorial vid on this very subject .

Practice , practice and even more practice .

Good Luck

[Roger2611]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1411751970' post='2562564']

Practice , practice and even more practice .

[/quote]

As above, I have learnt to do some for our band, once I knew the bassline so well that I couldn't get it wrong then practicing backing vox was a bit easier, however there are still some songs that I cannot play without a pick if I am doing backing vox!

[ratman]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1411751970' post='2562564']
Practice , practice and even more practice .
[/quote]

Exactly. I found it hard doing BVs after 10 years of just playing bass. Now it's pretty much second nature to me, and I pick up new parts really fast. It's a useful skill to have. Keep at it, and practise whenever you can, it will become easier with time and repetition.
I used to break down the two parts to find out the order of bass notes, consonants,or both sounding together. Does that make sense? Then get practising, slowly at first. Once you get the hang of it take the tempo up, gradually.

Something I got told a long time ago - 'you don't practise 'till you get something right, you practise till you never get it wrong!'

[Iain]

[quote name='martin8708' timestamp='1411751970' post='2562564']
I have always found singing and playing bass a lot harder than singing whilst playing guitar .
There is always the strong temptation to sing the words on every beat , you have to try and lift the vocal away from the bass line so you are in effect " multi-tasking " .

Try to learn the bass line so well that you don't even have to think about it , so it just comes automatically .
This will then allow you to concentrate on the vocals , the correct pitching and phrasing .

Start with a simple bass line , this will again free your concentration for your singing .
Watch youtube vids of the masters of singing /playing , Sting and Mark King come to mind .
Yolanda Charles has a very good tutorial vid on this very subject .

Practice , practice and even more practice .
[/quote]

This is all great advice.

Knowing the bassline inside out is the key for me so I can tune that out and just concentrate on the hard part - singing.

I got drafted in for BVs on one song where the guitarists rhythm went to pot on just one piece - 8th note chugging and a totally off beat vocal part. Turns out I find it easier to separate the two and we've now got a song or two with three-part harmonies. Beegees we're not but it's starting to sound good.

I also found a big difference in easy if I use a pick rather than my fingers, I've practised so I can use my normal finger style but noticed that i revert to a single finger when singing!!!

I still struggle on some songs - where you play staccato over a flowing lyric is really tough for me but it's just a practise thing.

With three of us being able to carry a tune it really gives us a lot of flexibility and we've been lucky both of us on BV duty have similar voices.

[bonzodog]

Practise is important but i think some bass lines are just too hard to play and sing at same time. In our band i sing lead vocals on some songs and backing on others. I tend to just play root notes while I sing then put the correct bass line in in-between when there is no vocals required.

[xilddx]

The way I did/do it was to think of your voice and your bass as a single entity, like a drum set. As long as you are comfortable singing and not worrying about pitching correctly, think of the bass as the kick drum and your voice as the snare or whatever. The bass is creating some sort of rhythmic pattern usually, and you have to think of starting and stopping your vocal notes as part of that rhythm. Depends how complex the parts are, but I discovered the above really helped. It still requires practice of course but I found my progress was quite fast doing the above.

[tonyquipment]

Try to not concentrate so much and lip sync the lyrics to begin with

After a while.. The words will just come out..

That's how I found it

But I'm still crap at singing so I don't bother lol

[Iain]

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1411759925' post='2562639']i think some bass lines are just too hard to play and sing at same time.[/quote]

Geddy!

[Grangur]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEdJP6ToAJ4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=EEdJP6ToAJ4[/url]

Nice bass too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQmhQyCMvig

Edited September 28, 2014 by Grangur

[bertbass]

Another thing which might help is to play without your eyes glued to the fret board which is again to learn the bass part so that you don't have to think about it. It also helps to sing into the mic easier. Good foldback helps a lot too.

[BassYerbouti]

Some great advice and words of encouragement from you all - thank you.

[ambient]

I had to do this for one semester in my first year at uni.

I was dreadful at it, not helped by the fact that I can't sing !

I found that I had to 'switch off', if I though about one or the other things, then it all went wrong. You need to really know the bass part, and the vocal part, and basically just do it on auto pilot.

[Truckstop]

You need to train yourself to not look at the fretboard. Once you've mastered that you'll find it much easier! That said, I do agree that there are aome basslines that are too hard to play and sing over.

Still can't sing the "sha la la la la" part of Brown Eyed Girl and play the line properly after probably 10 years of playing it.

Truckstop

[Weststarx]

Yeah my keys are:

- [b]Learning to play without looking at your bass[/b] ([i]it massively helps if you use the same bass or type of bass so it becomes muscle memory where the right notes are. If you use different instruments with different fret spacings an strings etc it starts to become a bit more difficult to do)[/i]

- [b]Simplifying bass lines where you need to [/b][i](a pain in the ass sometimes because there will be a lot of cool basslines that you'll miss out on because they are difficult to play in time and sing over as well - though nothings impossible with enough practice, I just cant be bothered to mess a song up [/i] )

To practice its also worth just singing along at rehearsals to songs you dont do back up vocals on, [i](without singing down the mic)[/i] just to get used to singing and playing at the same time. With that you can also practice singing in key with your singer as well.

My process with new songs is to learn the bass line first and nail it the best I can and then add the back up vocals after. As long as you know where you fingers are going and when it becomes a lot easier to focus on singing. It then ends up automatic - like driving a car and changing gear.

Edited September 30, 2014 by Weststarx

[CHW]

It took me 20 years to even get close to be able to do it.

I think I managed it by getting going with a basic 8th note I-IV-V progression and then trying to sing/talk over it. Eventually it just comes.

[IzzyT2807]

still learning how to do this one.. I'm ok to a certain point then my brain just melts

[ezbass]

I'm being pushed to sing more and more in my bands. At first it was just plain horrible but with more practise (usually on my own at home) it's become easier, although some songs, especially new ones, need more work. I do have a rule though, if the singing messes up the groove then someone else should sing it.

[Conan]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1412090897' post='2565561'] if the singing messes up the groove then someone else should sing it.
[/quote]

Definitely! Most punters don't really listen to the bass, but they [i][b]feel[/b][/i] the groove. Mess that up and you are compromising your role as a bass player (IMO). Depends on the music of course...

It's probably easier of you are composing original material, because you can always adapt the vocal to suit the bassline or (more often) change the bass part to suit the vocal. If you are doing covers, check to see who sings the lead and backing vocals on the original. Do they do it live? Is it the bass player? If they can do it, then with practice so can you!

As someone else said, playing bass and singing is generally much harder than playing guitar and singing - especially in any type of blues-based music genres.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Conan

[BassAgent]

I've been doing this for years and in my experience the best way to start doing this is:

[b]-Start by singing and playing along with songs sung by the bass player.[/b] E.g. The Police, Rush and that kind of stuff. If they can do it, so can you. They usually make bass parts that are easy to sing along with. I love songs like Message In A Bottle.

[b]-Start singing lead lines with songs you know (while playing of course).[/b] Those are the vocal lines you probably know best, so you don't have to think too much.

[b]-Take the backings![/b] Mostly you'll want to just add a third on top of the lead melody. They're the most widely used way of singing backing vocals.

[b]-Take it to the next level: talk.[/b] Talking and playing is the hardest thing to do, because talking isn't a musical thing. If you can do thát, you can sing and play any rhythm.

[Hobbayne]

Try not to get too near the mike, you are singing backing vox so you dont want to drown out the singer.
Take a step back so you can year if you are pitching correctly.

[BassAgent]

For not being too loud, there's supposed to be a sound guy. I'd say sing into the mic, your sound will be optimal and the sound guy will arrange for your volume to be perfect.

[Adrenochrome]

1. Get used to playing your bass with only very occasional glances down to check position at the most.
2. Make sure you can hear your singing clearly.
3. Sing your parts whenever you can eg in the shower, in the car etc.