Barefaced Handles rant

[Roland Rock]

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1412933374' post='2573375']
... angle on the handles?
[/quote]

It's the angle that's the problem! The elevated cab angle is too acute and a menace to shins.

[Alec]

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1412941702' post='2573484']
This does seem to be a British thing. I remember when Japanese were buying Sony, the Germans were buying Braun – we were buying Amstrad.
[/quote]
I think the Brits have grown up from this now - especially with the improved quality of overseas production.

The worst culprits I see are the Americans who *really* want to buy home produced products, even when they're agricultural in their primitive design. So many sound forums are full of yanks who won't buy Behringer, say, as it's made in China, because Peavey/Mackie is so much better... Quite bizarre! Don't seem to have any issue with buying iPhones/iPads, mind....

[JTUK]

PV and Mackie have the same innards as well, according an amp tech friend of mine.

[ambient]

Maybe it's as well they don't sell through shops, they're not exactly cheap as it is !

I have seen two of these cabs, and didn't think much of the build quality. The one wasn't even square !

[brensabre79]

I'd love to know why this particular brand brings out the worst in people. Many who should know better. I've read dozens of posts about gripes with other manufacturers but none carry such a backlash and pointing of the "Fanboy!" or "Naysayer!" finger.

I have to say in terms of gear letting me down...

I had a Genz Benz Shuttle that I had to return because it developed a horrible crackling sound 1/2 way through its first gig. The replacement did the same, in the end I was told to replace the valve by the manufacturer - this was 6 weeks after purchase.

My replacement for the Genz was a Carvin amp that developed a severe loss of output intermittently, I was told by the manufacturer to spray the ribbon connectors inside with some switch cleaner, still in warranty.

My SWR cab weighed a ton, cost a fortune and had exterior handles that were spring loaded and would trap your fingers when you put it down, until they rusted closed. I had to find my own replacements because the manufacturer had changed the design on newer models that didn't fit mine. I also had to put my own wheels on.

My Barefaced cab handles started to fray, I was sent a replacement handle kit within a week, by the manufacturer, with instructions how to fit them, and the offer to bring it in if I didn't feel comfortable doing so.

Oh, and I once bought an iPhone 4, mainly to be used for making phone calls. Except when I held the phone to my ear I experienced the same trouble as many people. It would drop the call because of the way the antenna was designed. The manufacturers response was universally "don't hold it that way then" - before they conceded and offered to sell a horrid looking rubber band to put around it.

I do feel that precisely because Barefaced are a fledgling company they are sometimes treated with less respect than others. Or that their products particular quirks are tolerated less.

I happy to admit, that the appearance of the Gen2 is not up there with the best of the mass produced competition on close inspection, although they have been making steady improvements as they have grown as a company. And maybe the rather flat, unflattering frequency response curve isn't for everyone... not all amps have tone controls. Again, driver and design improvements have been made along the way.

But it does, and even with slight handle fraying, function as intended.

[wateroftyne]

The thing is, as good as the cabs are, the design does put people off.

I'm not sure how long the 'it's a fledgling company' justification can last.

[Happy Jack]

There are some scabs just have to be picked, aren't there?

In truth, I had noticed that it was a while since the last have-a-pop-at-Barefaced thread on Basschat, and I was wondering whether people had finally given up banging their heads against brick walls.

What was I thinking?

As I near the end of my career (at long bloody last) I am more than ever persuaded that cash is king, and that the public votes not with its feet but with cash.

Opinions are indeed like aerosols. All that matters is, DO THEY SELL?

I dread to think how much money Unilever have made from selling Marmite. But sell it they do, and in astonishing quantities. The British public can't get enough of the stuff.

You can lecture them until you're blue in the face about how awful it tastes, how tricky it is to serve, how those funny foreigners have far better products available and you really can't understand why everybody doesn't buy them instead.

And you know what. Nobody gives a flying f*** what your opinion is. They know what they like, and they like Marmite, and they really do not care that a self-appointed expert is telling them they are wrong.

Now, what was it we were talking about?

[wateroftyne]

I imagine Alex takes a lot of it on board as viable feedback - he'll want to remove any barrier to someone buying one of his cabs.

[Paul S]

I'd like to have a Barefaced cabs rant.

I bought a Compact 3 1/2 years ago, followed by a Midget a year later. Neither have ever gone wrong. Not once. Handles are fine, feet firmly attached. They sounded brilliant on day one and sound brilliant today. Moreover I haven't injured my lower back when carrying these to the car/rehearsal space/gigs and back to the house again. Ever. Nor have either ever hit me in the shins,

My problem is - how can a man indulge his GAS when there are cabs like this out there that do the job so well? I read posts about other cabs and often fancy trying them but then, next time I use the Barefaced gear, the GAS goes. Bloody useless.

[LukeFRC]

What I don't get... seeing as there is such consensus that they are such awful cabs... why won't someone sell me a cheap unwanted Big baby 2, or big baby?

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1413213813' post='2575901']
I'd like to have a Barefaced cabs rant.

I bought a Compact 3 1/2 years ago, followed by a Midget a year later. Neither have ever gone wrong. Not once. Handles are fine, feet firmly attached. They sounded brilliant on day one and sound brilliant today. Moreover I haven't injured my lower back when carrying these to the car/rehearsal space/gigs and back to the house again. Ever. Nor have either ever hit me in the shins,

My problem is - how can a man indulge his GAS when there are cabs like this out there that do the job so well? I read posts about other cabs and often fancy trying them but then, next time I use the Barefaced gear, the GAS goes. Bloody useless.


[/quote]

This!!!

I would like to try a CN212 or a TKS cab but i'm not willing to sell my S12T just to fund a cab wich i don't know and may come with that horrible, awfull MID-SCOOP that makes my sound dull and boomy...

For me sound and weight are king, i traded looks and price in order to get that. The cab may be on the ugly side and one of the handles may be starting to fray but it still sounds good and keeps droping peoples jaws when they hear it (and then the jaw is pushed straight in when they try to pick it up).

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1413215372' post='2575930']
For me sound and weight are king, i traded looks and price in order to get that.
[/quote]

They're not mutually exclusive :-)

[Count Bassy]

To be clear, I have never owned or played through a barefaced Cab, so can't comment on the cabs themselves.

However, it seems to me that when Alex started he was a single man UK operation building cabs, first for himself and then for others. Further more he was a Basschatter. I suspect that consequently he was given a fairly easy ride by Basschat in those early days other than (IIRC) the aesthetics/finish. He was a 'quirky' (in a good way) small builder that people seem to love.[size=4] Is it possible that they are suffering a bit of a (subconscious) backlash against the easy ride of the early days?[/size]

Alex/Barefaced are now an established company going up against, and being compared with, the likes of Vanderkley, Bergantino etc. Alex should take this as a compliment, but it does mean that the quality, in all respects, now has to measure up against those competitors.[size=4] To quote that famous Fanny Craddock line (the one that finished her TV Career): "You're among professionals now, dear". I'm pretty sure that Alex is listening to the comments, hopefully objectively, and making improvements were he can, as should all companies. If not then Barefaced will be short lived.[/size]


In short I don't think that Barefaced are being treated unfairly, they are just being treated as any other company.

[size=4]PS: No one seems to complain whee Behringer get repeatedly slagged off on these pages, often by people with out personal experience.[/size]

Edited October 14, 2014 by Count Bassy

[icastle]

It may sound fickle, but the reality is that it doesn't matter how good a cab sounds - if it looks cheaper than the alternatives then it's always going to attract criticism.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1413296017' post='2576818']
It may sound fickle, but the reality is that it doesn't matter how good a cab sounds - if it looks cheaper than the alternatives then it's always going to attract criticism.
[/quote]
On the positive side of this: It may attract criticism, but possibly fewer thieves!!
Perhaps shoddy finishes should be re-marketed as "Thief Repelling". (not saying that Barefaced are shoddy - I've never seen one.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Count Bassy

[Toasted]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1413212467' post='2575868']
There are some scabs just have to be picked, aren't there?

In truth, I had noticed that it was a while since the last [b]defend-Barefaced-to-the-death-against-all-evidence[/b] thread on Basschat, and I was wondering whether people had finally given up banging their heads against brick walls.

What was I thinking?

As I near the end of my career (at long bloody last) I am more than ever persuaded that cash is king, and that the public votes not with its feet but with cash. Opinions are indeed like aerosols. All that matters is, DO THEY SELL? I dread to think how much money Unilever have made from selling Marmite. But sell it they do, and in astonishing quantities. The British public can't get enough of the stuff.

You can lecture them until you're blue in the face about [b]how awful Marmite sounds, how you're "using the Marmite handles wrong" how Mr.Marmite can appear an overbearing-know-it-all who baffles along about [i]science[/i], how the rattly Marmite grills are stuck on with sticky pads, how you can't understand how good they are until you've played at least 50 gigs with Marmite on them...[/b]

And you know what. Nobody gives a flying f*** what your opinion is. They know what they like, and they like Marmite, and they really do not care that a self-appointed expert is telling them they are wrong.

Now, what was it we were talking about?


[/quote]



No beef Happy Jack, you know we've made our peace on this subject.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Toasted

[Happy Jack]

No worries Joe, and (believe it or not) I had you down in my mind as a Marmite-lover ...

[icastle]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1413296291' post='2576821']
On the positive side of this: It may attract criticism, but possibly fewer thieves!!
Perhaps shoddy finishes should be re-marketed as "Thieve Repelling". (not saying that Barefaced are shoddy - I've never seen one.
[/quote]

There is always that.

[JTUK]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1413296017' post='2576818']
It may sound fickle, but the reality is that it doesn't matter how good a cab sounds - if it looks cheaper than the alternatives then it's always going to attract criticism.
[/quote]

Getting in a decent cabinet maker should have been priority number 1 years ago, IMO.

[Salt on your Bass?]

Wow, thats quite some thread about handle placement ...at least its stayed on topic :s

I like the handle arrangement on mine. Top is great to wheel it around venues or stages, but can also be used to pick up the cab with a bit of consideration to where the centre of balance is for the cab. Side handles work well for general carrying either single or double handed IMO. Im using a BT2.

[machinehead]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1413301019' post='2576901']
Getting in a decent cabinet maker should have been priority number 1 years ago, IMO.
[/quote]

An even higher priority than proper and high quality mechanical and electrical engineering and acoustics?

You know though, part of me agrees with you because it's quite likely that most players buy with their eyes. There's nothing at all wrong with subjective good looks but I suspect that for years now, most (note: not ALL) cab manufacturers have been selling their products based on looks, image and profit margins, usually at the expense of good engineering. Which would be acceptable if the products were also cheap and we all know that isn't always the case.

In the end it doesn't matter to me what people do or don't buy. We all buy what works for ourselves.

Frank.

Frank.

[M@23]

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1413326645' post='2577293']
An even higher priority than proper and high quality mechanical and electrical engineering and acoustics?

[/quote]

That side of it is obviously quality - so there are no worries there.

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1413218737' post='2575981']
They're not mutually exclusive :-)
[/quote]

Yep but you can't find it all together in other gear and for me weight trumps looks - and i don't think that the cab looks that ugly on stage... does it?






( i haven't tried TKS yet)

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1413453142' post='2578324']
Yep but you can't find it all together in other gear

*snip*

( i haven't tried TKS yet)
[/quote]

[Ghost_Bass]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1413453240' post='2578325']

[/quote]

Don't know... i like BF because of the flat response. From what i've been reading TKS seems to have a small amount of "colour" (read mid-scoop/bass boost) on it's sound. Maybe i'm wrong.

I do love their looks with the silver cloth and that big wood frame around, SEXY!!!