Bass playing under a guitar solo

[Annoying Twit]

I've just heard Joe Satriani playing a guitar solo.

While there's nothing being played outside the box, I was quite impressed by the bass playing on this track. In my opinion, and I'd be happy to hear other/contrary opinions, the bass player on this does a very good job at providing a solid backing to Satriani's solo, while still putting enough variation, fills, and interest into the bassline to make it interesting in itself (particularly near the end of the track) without distracting from the lead guitar which is of course the focus of a Satriani track. IMHO the mellow bass tone does help with this, which is not going to be an accident.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6LXD7uzn4

Any opinions on this?

Edited October 5, 2014 by icastle
Link Fixed.

[KevB]

Think that's Dave La Rue who's worked with Steve Morse in various guises so he's used to backing sh*t hot guitarists, he's an excellent bass player without being unneccessarily showy which fits these type of acts just fine.

[Annoying Twit]

Checking photos, that's definitely Dave La Rue. I found another photo of him with the same (or identical) bass and Joe Satriani when Satriani still had hair

It's a 10 minute track, so it needs variation, and for the bass to subtly develop throughout. But the balancing act is to support the lead, not detract from it. La Rue, in my humble opinion, nails it.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[blue]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1412249133' post='2567097']
I've just heard Joe Satriani playing a guitar solo.

While there's nothing being played outside the box, I was quite impressed by the bass playing on this track. In my opinion, and I'd be happy to hear other/contrary opinions, the bass player on this does a very good job at providing a solid backing to Satriani's solo, while still putting enough variation, fills, and interest into the bassline to make it interesting in itself (particularly near the end of the track) without distracting from the lead guitar which is of course the focus of a Satriani track. IMHO the mellow bass tone does help with this, which is not going to be an accident.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo6LXD7uzn4"]https://www.youtube....h?v=Yo6LXD7uzn4[/url]

Any opinions on this?
[/quote]

I think and and work on this issue all the time. I am always thinking;

"What kind of foundation am I and my drummer providing?"

My opinion is, it's not about putting enough variation, fills, and interest into the bass line to make it interesting. It's about being right, playing right, giving the right foundation/groove and support for that solo. Lately I have been using overdrive and chorus to give a thicker tone to support guitar solos.

Let's just hope these guitarist understand that's what we are trying to do.

Blue

Edited October 2, 2014 by blue

[chrismuzz]

When the guitar player is soloing its more important than ever for the bass to keep a solid foundation. I used to really try and overplay and it always sounded like we were "going off on a tangent" rather than it being part of the song. Dave La Rue is a perfect example of a rock bass player. He's got the chops, knows when to use them, and more importantly, when NOT to!

[toneknob]

Yep, Dave LaRue for sure, a great player. Check him out with the Dixie Dregs from back in the day.

Here's some more with JS from (I think) the same show as the original clip. Familiar fare for Satch fans for the first few minutes, but then after 4m20s it's all systems go, we have lift off on Satriani spaceways. The pickup from 7m45s onwards is amazing all round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DzRb4DHGw

[Conan]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1412283193' post='2567570'] Dave La Rue is a perfect example of a rock bass player. He's got the chops, knows when to use them, and more importantly, when NOT to!
[/quote]

THISSSS!!! ^^^

Satriani doesn't like key changes much, does he? Which must make the job of his bass player even harder. Much respect to Dave LR.

Another example of his great chops and solid (though busy this time!) groove playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juHYDJmGO5Y

Edited October 5, 2014 by icastle
Link Fixed.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1412285366' post='2567591']
Here's some more with JS from (I think) the same show as the original clip. Familiar fare for Satch fans for the first few minutes, but then after 4m20s it's all systems go, we have lift off on Satriani spaceways. The pickup from 7m45s onwards is amazing all round.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1DzRb4DHGw[/media]
[/quote]

I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority here, but there are few things my life needs less than an 11-minute guitar solo played to an audience of wannabee guitar heroes.

That was painfully dull, and the "all systems go" from 4m20s sounded far better when The Who started Baba Yaga with that riff & sound.

The bass playing from 7m45s was astonishing technical stuff and I will never be able to get anywhere near that standard. Which is fine, because I would never want to play bass like that.

Not having a pop at anyone, especially not toneknob, just saying ... not everyone likes this sort of stuff.

[KevB]

I know where you're coming from Jack. I remember some years ago I was persuaded to go along to one of those '3G' type events which was Satriani, Vai and someone else but it all gets too much very quickly and none of it sticks in your mind like 'good tune' would.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1412340322' post='2567997']
I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority here, but there are few things my life needs less than an 11-minute guitar solo played to an audience of wannabee guitar heroes.

That was painfully dull, and the "all systems go" from 4m20s sounded far better when The Who started Baba Yaga with that riff & sound.

The bass playing from 7m45s was astonishing technical stuff and I will never be able to get anywhere near that standard. Which is fine, because I would never want to play bass like that.

Not having a pop at anyone, especially not toneknob, just saying ... not everyone likes this sort of stuff.
[/quote]

Have to agree. Didn't even get a twitch in the bag listening to that.

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1412340322' post='2567997']


I'm sure I'm in a tiny minority here, but there are few things my life needs less than an 11-minute guitar solo played to an audience of wannabee guitar heroes.

That was painfully dull, and the "all systems go" from 4m20s sounded far better when The Who started Baba Yaga with that riff & sound.

[/quote]

It was horrible!

I'm not sure who his influences are, I've not listened to enough of his stuff, but it seemed like he wants to be Hendrix and what he lacks in soul and feeling he's tried to make up for with technicality.

Prob way off the mark mind you

[paul_5]

I've had some AMAZING times to Joe Satch albums - hallucinogens just aren't the same without them.

Seriously though, DLR does some lovely playing. Nice to have the chops, but even nicer not using them.

[Painy]

To be honest I was a bit distracted from his playing by the fact that his attire was better suited to sitting on a park bench with a 4-pack of Tennant's Extra than to performing on a stage.

Not that I'm one to talk mind.

[visog]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1412252217' post='2567153']
Think that's Dave La Rue who's worked with Steve Morse in various guises so he's used to backing sh*t hot guitarists, he's an excellent bass player without being unneccessarily showy which fits these type of acts just fine.
[/quote]
[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1412253479' post='2567168']
Checking photos, that's definitely Dave La Rue. I found another photo of him with the same (or identical) bass and Joe Satriani when Satriani still had hair

It's a 10 minute track, so it needs variation, and for the bass to subtly develop throughout. But the balancing act is to support the lead, not detract from it. La Rue, in my humble opinion, nails it.
[/quote]

On the subject of DLR (as opposed to DLT!), just found this neat vid that shows him with a few other MM endorsers raving over some new pick-up selection deely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fJgqoWgGno

From 5:00 he's doing some good 'playing under soloing...'

Edited October 5, 2014 by icastle
Link Fixed.

[Annoying Twit]

I've checked out more of Dave LaRue's stuff, and been impressed. His solo album is perhaps a bit too 80s in places, but there are some very nice pieces. The following is for a solo perhaps a little bit 'accompaniment' like, but I like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiONXXHvTS0

Edited October 5, 2014 by icastle
Link Fixed.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1412252217' post='2567153']
Think that's Dave La Rue who's worked with Steve Morse in various guises so he's used to backing sh*t hot guitarists, he's an excellent bass player without being unneccessarily showy which fits these type of acts just fine.
[/quote]

I met Dave La Rue at a jam night once. I expected a thorough schooling in how to play bass guitar, but I got some fairly straightforward blues-rock while he stared at himself in a large mirror at the back of the stage.

[blue]

Just a few more comments;

"[i]If your not working with a competent drummer that understands the significance of the support your both suppose to be providing together your screwed".[/i]

[i]"The foundation is even more crucial for you guys that are in blues-rock trios."[/i]

I'm going out on a limb here, but with this topic I have a lot more respect and appreciation for what Tom Peterson of Cheap Trick does. Playing those 12 string basses is not a gimmick at all. It's his technique for giving the band a really full sound.

Some will say he's actually still playing a 4 string, and I would agree.

[b]Tom's Basses[/b] ( rig rundown )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qQcYLDoEcY

[b]Application[/b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGTTle80un0


Blue

Edited October 5, 2014 by icastle
Links Fixed.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1412249133' post='2567097']
....Any opinions on this?....
[/quote]

Good grown up bass playing.

In a different style, also listen to the great Carmine Rojas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVEnViP4wrs) and almost anything by Nathan East.

[JTUK]

Didn't Joe S pretty much write the book for that 'modern' style way back so you have him to either thank, or blame ..

[72deluxe]

I grew up listening to Satriani and think he has some excellent playing. Admittedly, if you're used to listening to "vocal" songs then it might be a bit alien. But cleverly his melody lines typically are things that you can hum. In fact, he says that to work something out, sing it first. His phrasing is also very interesting, and instead of just playing endless linked melody lines, he puts breaks in them in the same sort of place a human would breathe if they were humming it. Contrast this with someone like Malmsteen, where there are few breaks.

He seems deeply rooted in the blues instead of just "rock" like Michael Schenker, and did have lessons with the blind pianist Lennie Tristano when he was younger. He also taught a few guys like Steve Vai and Kirk Hammet I think? When you listen to them play, you can see where they got some of their styles from, and in my opinion Satriani carries off playing in a neater way than Hammet, without sounding too "alien" like Vai (who also has phenomenal technique - look at his bends!). I appreciated Satriani's playing more after trying to play guitar a bit myself, and realising that he was doing really really difficult stuff; I also appreciated "guitar" music more after reading a book explaining jazz because, like jazz, I had been listening to it wrong - instead of listening to it like pop music and expecting something you can sing along to and repeated simple hooks, you need to listen to the interplay between the musicians. This doesn't necessarily apply to Satriani so much, more Vai (particularly his Passion and Warfare album, where the music behind is the most interesting thing going on).

Anyway, Satriani has an amazing technical/theoretical knowledge, and there is a video somewhere on YouTube where a guy has a lesson with him and Satriani plays something very very basic, yet it is very clever. If you check out his early stuff on "Not Of This Earth" you can hear some pitch axis theory stuff going on. His guitar sounds super 80s-scratchy on early stuff though.

I do enjoy his stuff even though the bass lines can be quite "samey" note-wise, but the same goes for Roger Glover in Deep Purple. You could probably swap the bass lines between songs by them and you wouldn't notice! There is some interesting slappy stuff when he worked with Stu Hamm.

If you listen to his recent album "Unstoppable Momentum" there is more "band stuff" going on behind, which makes for a refreshing change. It's very good, although on tour the Wolverhampton Civic was very empty! They missed out on seeing Bryan Beller, Marco Minnemann and Mike Keneally playing Satriani's songs in a very very different style than the videos above. It felt more like a band, and with drive and feeling (particularly thanks to Marco).

That video does indeed feature Dave Larue; I saw him on that tour and you wouldn't never know what a whizz-bang bass player he was from his playing. He just stood there doing an excellent rock-bass-player job instead of a technical wizardry session. Well done to him. Nice MusicMan bass too.

[toneknob]

[quote name='72deluxe' timestamp='1412860420' post='2572744']
If you listen to his recent album "Unstoppable Momentum" there is more "band stuff" going on behind, which makes for a refreshing change. It's very good, although on tour the Wolverhampton Civic was very empty! They missed out on seeing Bryan Beller, Marco Minnemann and Mike Keneally playing Satriani's songs in a very very different style than the videos above. It felt more like a band, and with drive and feeling (particularly thanks to Marco).
[/quote]

I saw that show in London - first time I've seen JS in many years, but still a great gig. I'm used to seeing BB and MM in the Aristocrats, and again MM in Steven Wilson's band, and to be honest MM looked a bit bored with Joe! But having said that, I love how JS takes a different band on the road for every tour.