Amp advice?

[John_P]

Apologies for yet another which amp to buy thread, but I'm going round in circles trying to decide...

I just want something a bit different from the old peavey/trace type gear I used to use many years ago.

Must be loud enough to cope with hard hitting drummers and rock guitars - here's the list of amps I've thought about - I'd really appreciate any comments from people who've gigged them. I don't really want to spend more than 400 and 300 would be even better (if I come across a used one)

TC bh250 1x15/2x10 combo +1 compact, toneprint - no extension cab so volume worries.

TC BH500 + 2x12 (with free 2x12 offer at andertons so I could sell the free cab to get it in budget)

Aguilar tone hammer 350 (and a cheap used cab - if I can find one)


I did see a GK mb 212 but the seller won't post or allow collection so that's out but how about the powered cab 212MBP I've seen one for 400 so a preamp pedal might make this workable.

Euphonic Audio iamp 800 (again I'd need to find a cheap cab)

Mark Bass lm2 in the classified here would definitely work ok but are they loud enough (and yet again I need to find a cab)


I set out thinking I might find a combo but I keep seeing nice heads - if I saw a cab, then the aguilar is leading the way at the moment but I'd love to hear any comments on the amps I've mentioned or any others I should look at.

[LukeFRC]

If I were you I would look for a good cab or two first - cost that up and then look for the amp with whatever is left over.

[6v6]

[quote name='John_P' timestamp='1412373341' post='2568455']
Must be loud enough to cope with hard hitting drummers and rock guitars
[size=4][/quote][/size]

IMHO this discounts anything less than 500w into 4ohms and most combos, e.g most of your list.

[size=4][quote name='John_P' timestamp='1412373341' post='2568455'][/size]
[size=4]Mark Bass lm2 in the classified here would definitely work ok but are they loud enough[/size]
[/quote]

Yes, a LM (or similar 500w head) and and a 4ohm 2x12 or 4x10 would do the job nicely IME.

[John_P]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1412374851' post='2568484']
[/size]

IMHO this discounts anything less than 500w into 4ohms and most combos, e.g most of your list.

[size=4]

Yes, a LM (or similar 500w head) and and a 4ohm 2x12 or 4x10 would do the job nicely IME.
[/quote]

Thanks for the replies, but the bh500 and aguilar 350, iamp800 aren't up to gigging? I'm only talkng pubs really but I don't want to buy twice if you know what I mean.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='John_P' timestamp='1412375582' post='2568497']
Thanks for the replies, but the bh500 and aguilar 350, iamp800 aren't up to gigging? I'm only talkng pubs really but I don't want to buy twice if you know what I mean.
[/quote] depends on the cabs.....
Plug that aggy 350 into a lower end 112 and probably not - plug it into a 810 and you'd be fine.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1412374851' post='2568484']
[/size]

IMHO this discounts anything less than 500w into 4ohms and most combos, e.g most of your list.
[/quote]

Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish. Watts don't determine how loud a thing goes. That's the cab's SPL which is rated in decibels.
I used to play in a loud 2 guitar band with a shed building drummer using an LMII into 2 10" drivers at 8 ohm & had no trouble being heard (I got asked to turn down more often than to turn up the volume).
The LMII into the 2x10 went a lot louder than my Trace Elliott into a 4x10 ever could.
I'd say save a little more & get the LMII & find a good 2x10/2x12 with a decent SPL, or if you can get a good combo like a Markbass or similar.

[6v6]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1412376333' post='2568508']
Sorry, but that's a load of rubbish. Watts don't determine how loud a thing goes. That's the cab's SPL which is rated in decibels.
I used to play in a loud 2 guitar band with a shed building drummer using an LMII into 2 10" drivers at 8 ohm & had no trouble being heard (I got asked to turn down more often than to turn up the volume).
The LMII into the 2x10 went a lot louder than my Trace Elliott into a 4x10 ever could.
I'd say save a little more & get the LMII & find a good 2x10/2x12 with a decent SPL, or if you can get a good combo like a Markbass or similar.
[/quote]

Woah, bit harsh!

Watts are related to how load a thing goes, albeit that a 500w amp won't sound massively louder than a 350w amp (you need ten times more power to sound twice as loud)

I gigged for a fair while with a 120w combo, so I know it *can* be done, but the OP said "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]loud enough to cope with hard hitting drummers and rock guitars", which has now been revised to pub gigs, in which case any of the amps will probably be fine.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]I suggested the LM and a 2x12, which, uh, is the same as you suggested, so despite me talking rubbish, it would appear we're in violent agreement [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]FWIW I play pub gigs with a LM3 and a single 8ohm 1x12 and it's adequate, sometimes a little PA support is needed in the bigger places.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]Really, how big an amp and cab you go for depends on your attitude to PA support (and the maturity of your drummer) - some folks don't use an amp at all.[/size][/font][/color]

[6v6]

[quote name='John_P' timestamp='1412375582' post='2568497']
Thanks for the replies, but the bh500 and aguilar 350, iamp800 aren't up to gigging? I'm only talkng pubs really but I don't want to buy twice if you know what I mean.
[/quote]

All I meant really is, for example, the AG350 is only 175w into 8ohms and the BH250 less than that (maybe the combos are 4ohms but then you can't run an extension cab), which if you're competing with a loud drummer and a couple of rock guitar legends with 100w marshalls, you might find them a little lacking if you're not running them into big efficient cabs. For small pub gigs, any of them will probably be perfectly fine

[xgsjx]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1412383170' post='2568548']
Woah, bit harsh!

Watts are related to how load a thing goes, albeit that a 500w amp won't sound massively louder than a 350w amp (you need ten times more power to sound twice as loud)

I gigged for a fair while with a 120w combo, so I know it *can* be done, but the OP said "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]loud enough to cope with hard hitting drummers and rock guitars", which has now been revised to pub gigs, in which case any of the amps will probably be fine.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]I suggested the LM and a 2x12, which, uh, is the same as you suggested, so despite me talking rubbish, it would appear we're in violent agreement [/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]FWIW I play pub gigs with a LM3 and a single 8ohm 1x12 and it's adequate, sometimes a little PA support is needed in the bigger places.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=4]Really, how big an amp and cab you go for depends on your attitude to PA support (and the maturity of your drummer) - some folks don't use an amp at all.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]
My apologies. Reading back on that, it did come across rather strong.

I need to be more mindful of what I'm typing on my phone whilst baking. I could have worded that much better than I did & not sounded like a wassick.

[karlfer]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJTUZl0UO8"]Carvin BX700 Bass Amp Overview - YouTube[/url]

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/carvin-bx700-4-10-cab-wow.1063933/"]CARVIN BX700 & 4-10 CAB ... WOW !! | TalkBass.com[/url]

OK, mine is pretty much sold, getting picked up tomorrow, but there are less well know alternatives to MB, TC etc.
Only reason mine is getting sold is because I stack my new cabs horizontally and the head overhangs a couple of inches each side.
Hey, each to their own

And you will NEVER have volume issues, it has far more headroom than the Tone Hammer 500 I tried the other day.

[JTUK]

I would be pretty sceptical and a 210 could really do a very good job at volume.
I think you might, just might, get there in terms of volume, but it would be pretty weak
and by that, it might sound ok close up, but it wouldn't be supporting the band against
the loud drums and loud gtrs, IMO.

I guess it depends what we all mean by loud but a typical 210 would be 350/400 and that is
a hard shift against loud drums and gtrs.
I think there is a world of difference between volume and being THERE...

[John_P]

Just to clarify - I know it's really hard to describe and compare volume of bands - I usually gig playing guitar and use a fender twin or an evh 5153. Either of those amps are usually on 6 (out of 10) and the drummers I play with don't need to be mic'ed up for volume in a typcial pub gig. That said usually there would be Pa reinforcement to help spread the sound.

I remember using 250W or so peavey and trace amp and having plenty of volume. I'd like something more modern and lighter (and smaller perhaps) so I figured the same sort of power (250 or more) could get there, hence thinking something like a bh250 1x15 would be fine but then I read so many reports saying they aren't up to it and are better used as a home practise amp that I thought I'd see what people who are out gigging with loud drummers think. Hopefully something nice will appear in the classified soon

[6v6]

[quote name='John_P' timestamp='1412416713' post='2568703']
Just to clarify - I know it's really hard to describe and compare volume of bands - I usually gig playing guitar and use a fender twin or an evh 5153. Either of those amps are usually on 6 (out of 10) and the drummers I play with don't need to be mic'ed up for volume in a typcial pub gig. That said usually there would be Pa reinforcement to help spread the sound.
[size=4][/quote][/size]

Assuming thats a 100w 5153 I'd classify that and a twin running with master at 6 as well towards the pretty-damn-loud end of the spectrum.

The 250w starting point is probably sensible, but I guess the question to ask yourself is what you'll do if the 250w combo isn't loud enough - the TC combos won't take an extension cab so you're at your maximum the day you buy it, whereas one of the amps or combos which do 250w+ into 8ohms (e.g the 500w+ amps, as all manufacturers brand things for their absolute-maximum-into-4ohms ratings) future-proof you to a point, as you can add another speaker for more cone area and more power if you need it.

[John_P]

[quote name='6v6' timestamp='1412420493' post='2568766']
[/size]

Assuming thats a 100w 5153 I'd classify that and a twin running with master at 6 as well towards the pretty-damn-loud end of the spectrum.

The 250w starting point is probably sensible, but I guess the question to ask yourself is what you'll do if the 250w combo isn't loud enough - the TC combos won't take an extension cab so you're at your maximum the day you buy it, whereas one of the amps or combos which do 250w+ into 8ohms (e.g the 500w+ amps, as all manufacturers brand things for their absolute-maximum-into-4ohms ratings) future-proof you to a point, as you can add another speaker for more cone area and more power if you need it.
[/quote]

Good advice - thanks, just confirms it that although a dinky bh250 would be nice I should get something more future proof. If I see a cab I'll probably jump on the tonehammer 350 or LM2.

[JTUK]

A lot of bass players are looking for more than just volume now. They want the sound AND volume
and winding something up as loud as poss to get thru a mix... with little or no ability to shape that
sound as you are maxxed up is why people look at 350w in 8 type amps.
If gtrs are willing to drive smaller combos hard, ...and even old Boogies etc got very loud, then
that bodes well for the band because they are looking and thinking about the band sound rather
than their own sound and everyone else having to fit with it...or not, as it invaribly turned out

[karlfer]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1412424491' post='2568819']
A lot of bass players are looking for more than just volume now. They want the sound AND volume
and winding something up as loud as poss to get thru a mix... with little or no ability to shape that
sound as you are maxxed up is why people look at 350w in 8 type amps.
If gtrs are willing to drive smaller combos hard, ...and even old Boogies etc got very loud, then
that bodes well for the band because they are looking and thinking about the band sound rather
than their own sound and everyone else having to fit with it...or not, as it invaribly turned out
[/quote]

This.

[BassBunny]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1412401049' post='2568580']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJTUZl0UO8"]Carvin BX700 Bass Amp Overview - YouTube[/url]

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/carvin-bx700-4-10-cab-wow.1063933/"]CARVIN BX700 & 4-10 CAB ... WOW !! | TalkBass.com[/url]

OK, mine is pretty much sold, getting picked up tomorrow, but there are less well know alternatives to MB, TC etc.
Only reason mine is getting sold is because I stack my new cabs horizontally and the head overhangs a couple of inches each side.
Hey, each to their own

And you will NEVER have volume issues, it has far more headroom than the Tone Hammer 500 I tried the other day.
[/quote]
Carvin are "Absolutely Stonkin Amps". Drew at Manchester Bass Lounge has a 2nd Hand BX500 For Sale at £240, which is a steal. Virtually identical to Karl's BX700 except it doesn't go down to 2 Ohms. That coupled to a decent Cab would give you everything you need, and more.

[Iain]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1412415690' post='2568687']
I would be pretty sceptical and a 210 could really do a very good job at volume.
I think you might, just might, get there in terms of volume, but it would be pretty weak
and by that, it might sound ok close up, but it wouldn't be supporting the band against
the loud drums and loud gtrs, IMO.

I guess it depends what we all mean by loud but a typical 210 would be 350/400 and that is
a hard shift against loud drums and gtrs.
I think there is a world of difference between volume and being THERE...
[/quote]

Yeah, it can be quite trial and error as to what works. I've come to the conclusion that it's better to have too much and turn it down than be pushing headroom.

Before I added the 1x15 MB cab to my 1x12 - I'd used the 1x12 in a large social club and you could hear it out in the street apparently. Running 12" and 15" just reinforced the bottom end to the point I get the sound I want at any volume we've needed so far.

I'm not sure I could gig 2X10 at higher volumes and get the oomph I want without it becoming messy. At least not 'cheap' 2x10s. I suspect there's a cost-quality correlation to take into account though.

[zero9]

Speakers are the key, although you'll need a suitable amp to drive them.

You can have the 'loudest' amp possible with 1200 Watts, but if it's pushing through a single 10 or 12 or even 15 inch speaker, you're not going to get the spread of volume you want.

My first Trace was a 150W combo, but it had 4 x 10 inch speakers, and was good enough to keep up with loud drummers and 2 guitars.

I'd suggest looking at an amp which can deliver at least 250W, but complement this with either two lightweight 2 x 10 or 2 x 12 efficient speaker cabs. You can always run one cab for smaller gigs / rehearsal and add the second when needed.

[xgsjx]

It's down to the quality of the driver. The markbass 2x10 is way louder than the Trace Elliot 4x10 I had prior to it & has a much better sound.
I wouldn't expect many poor quality cabs to be of use in a loud band regardless of driver config.

[Iain]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1412427536' post='2568855']I wouldn't expect many poor quality cabs to be of use in a loud band regardless of driver config.[/quote]

Indeed - I used to have a 2x10 and 1x15 Ampeg setup and it was just nasty when asked to work hard.

The Traveller 121H delivered a better sound alone than the Ampeg stack.

If I had car space I'd probably use a 104 but the separate cabs give me flex on gig size...

[karlfer]

[quote name='BassBunny' timestamp='1412426527' post='2568837']
Carvin are "Absolutely Stonkin Amps". Drew at Manchester Bass Lounge has a 2nd Hand BX500 For Sale at £240, which is a steal. Virtually identical to Karl's BX700 except it doesn't go down to 2 Ohms. That coupled to a decent Cab would give you everything you need, and more.
[/quote]

And the 500 doesn't have the red backlighting, which is very handy on a dark stage.
And the 500 isn't quite as powerful at 4 ohms, although the reality is only a couple of db.

Edited October 4, 2014 by karlfer