A strange division in attitudes

[Bilbo]

It is an interesting debate but it rests in the subjective perspective of the individual.

Any musician or punter can probably recognise the difference between the technical abilities of, say, Peter Hook and Jeff Berlin. I think it would take a lot more insight to recognise the difference between, say, Malmsteen and Vai or John McLaughlin and Al Di Meola. When you get into the major talents of people who are absolute virtuosos on their instruments, you don't get better you only get different (say, Keith Jarrett vs Brad Mehldau or Dave Holland vs. Christian McBride etc). But there are many artists who reach a technical level beyond thst of mere mortals without getting the 'musicality' thing sorted. Examples may (subjectively) include Michel Camilo, Al Di Meola, Tuck Andress, Gary Willis, Michaal Manring, Jeff Berlin or whoever who seem to get cleverer and cleverer and faster and faster and more and more athletic without actually getting any deeper into the music.

To recognise such differences takes a lot more than it does to recognise the Hook/Berlin difference referred to above. If you only look for 'speed' you will not recognise the value of 'depth'. Malmsteen may be faster but, say, B.B. King is deeper. I think it depends on your relationship with the music. For some, it is more superficial than others and the things that impress are whizzy rather than profound. Itzhak Perlman playing Schindler's List would look less remarkable to a speedfreak than Malmsteen playing some Bach but the depth of Perlman's performance is that much greater. I guess it comes down to recogising why we, as individuals, listen to or play music.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1412858090' post='2572711'] But there are many artists who reach a technical level beyond thst of mere mortals without getting the 'musicality' thing sorted. Examples may (subjectively) include Michel Camilo, Al Di Meola, Tuck Andress, Gary Willis, Michaal Manring, Jeff Berlin or whoever who seem to get cleverer and cleverer and faster and faster and more and more athletic without actually getting any deeper into the music.
[/quote]

Interesting point and prompts me to ask what people thing about 'photo-realistic' paintings and drawings?

The ones I've seen are absolutely amazing and the skill and talent required to create them is quite astounding. But what's the point, other than to demonstrate the skill of the artist?

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1412858090' post='2572711']
To recognise such differences takes a lot more than it does to recognise the Hook/Berlin difference referred to above. If you only look for 'speed' you will not recognise the value of 'depth'. Malmsteen may be faster but, say, B.B. King is deeper.
[/quote]

That's massively subjective too, though. I'm sure that Malmsteen does feel deeply about his music, and his fans will too. I don't really get his music myself, but I'm not sure that makes it inherently more shallow or less profound than something that I do get.
I can think of a fair few performances by renowned artists which can literally give me goosebumps or bring me close to tears if I listen to them at the right time, which my wife dismisses as w*nking or noodling, so it seems to me that we will all see these qualities in different places.

[Happy Jack]

But if one artist gets very much deeper into the music than another, would that not be a strange division in altitudes?

[timmo]

I don`t like Malmsteen, or Jeff Berlin`s music. I sure can appreciate thier talent though. Wish i had half of Berlin`s skill

[stingrayPete1977]

I lose interest quite quickly to any twiddle stuff what ever instrument it's played on, if a player is sitting with a single cut through neck seven string bass in a you tube link I rarely open it

[stuckinthepod]

Perhaps because most technical guitar players seem to have backing bands that sound as flat a total guitar backing track? It's usually just a bed for the guitarist to W**k over the top off. I love Satriani but the band is held back so much it just kills any natural vibe and groove a song might have had. I guess you can say that about any stunt or lead guitar led outfit- blues included.

[Muzz]

Nope, haven't noticed any difference in attitude. Me, I'm very even-handed: can't be doing with any of it...

[Dad3353]

I'm not sure there's any 'value' at all in imagining this scale of musicality and all. Once we put to bed the technical abilities, the 'artistic' worth is subjective on so many levels, it makes no sense at all. A talented artist, on an 'off' day, noodling out by rote may well, on that day, touch the spirit of someone in the audience, receptive in that moment. Another concert, that same artist, completely 'in the moment' himself, may leave cold that same member of the audience. All the permutations are possible. I've listened to Tchaikovsky and cried with emotion; at a later date, that same piece had no effect at all. Faster..? Yes, can be measured (but to what end..?). More complex..? Yes, up to a point, one can analyse the contents. Artistic worth..? Hopeless task, of limited worth, even to the person attempting such.
Applies equally to many (most..?) human endeavours (dance, architecture, cooking etc...), not just music, imo.