Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Need some advice about this. I've had the lyte for a while and it's a wonderful bass to play but I was underwhelmed with the tone. I've tried various pickups and preamps before realising that what I actually wanted was the tone of my JV Squier P in a lighter package. So I bought the '62 re-issue pickup, put passive wiring in (tone, vol) and a 3 way toggle switch so that when it is in the forward position, the wiring only 'sees' the P pickup. It's much better but it's still not there. What it lacks is the high end clarity. I've lowered the pickups to have even a larger gap than the one on the full size P but this hasn't made much difference. The logical thing to do here is put the pickup from my JV into it to see if it's actually the pickups that need changing again but I just don't want to take a chance that they go back into the original bass and it's never quite the same again. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 I know some of you will suggest I just get a lighter full sized P bass but the lighter ones I've tried tend to neck-dive, even on a think strap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) Hi, Sharkfinger I'm assuming it has a jazz bridge pickup slot like PaulS's? If so, I would have thought the easiest and most riskless way would be to buy a budget jazz bridge pickup and wire it in using the two volumes for a blend. Have the P pickup on full volume and wind in the bridge until it sounds how you want it. That's what I do with my Squier VM Jaguar: Edited October 8, 2014 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1412775862' post='2571904'] Hi, Sharkfinger I'm assuming it has a jazz bridge pickup slot like PaulS's? If so, I would have thought the easiest and most riskless way would be to buy a budget jazz bridge pickup and wire it in using the two volumes for a blend. Have the P pickup on full volume and wind in the bridge until it sounds how you want it. That's what I do with my Squier VM Jaguar: [/quote] Gosh, that's pretty.... It does indeed have a jazz bridge pickup and I've left the original in, as I don't really use it. However, I'm after a pure P bass tone which is why I installed the toggle switch so that when it's in the appropriate position, it's effectively the same electronics. I should put up some pics to clarify things, I think. Edited October 8, 2014 by Sharkfinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1412776442' post='2571913'] Gosh, that's pretty.... It does indeed have a jazz bridge pickup and I've left the original in, as I don't really use it. However, I'm after a pure P bass tone which is why I installed the toggle switch so that when it's in the appropriate position, it's effectively the same electronics. I should put up some pics to clarify things, I think. [/quote] Thanks - it's amazing what you can do with a bit of veneer and a can of Ronseal The problem with tone is the number of things that can affect it. There is no guarantee if you did pop your JV P bass pickup into the Lyte that it would sound the same as in your JV. It is, having said that, a very low risk that, if you did try it and put it back into the JV again, that it would beggar anything up in the JV - so, maybe worth a try. The only reason I suggest trying the inclusion of a bit of the Jazz pickup is that you have all of the electronics you need, with the 3-way you've fitted, and a tiny bit of the jazz p/up WILL add high end clarity. If my Jaguar is anything to go by, it doesn't seem to suck any tone out of the P p/up. Certainly worth a try before taking the JV apart...you can always disconnect it again if it does affect the tone even when the jazz p/up is turned right down (there are also the Fender pots you can get that bypass completely at zero - are they call zero tone pots?) Just a thought Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1412778301' post='2571947'] Thanks - it's amazing what you can do with a bit of veneer and a can of Ronseal The problem with tone is the number of things that can affect it. There is no guarantee if you did pop your JV P bass pickup into the Lyte that it would sound the same as in your JV. It is, having said that, a very low risk that, if you did try it and put it back into the JV again, that it would beggar anything up in the JV - so, maybe worth a try. The only reason I suggest trying the inclusion of a bit of the Jazz pickup is that you have all of the electronics you need, with the 3-way you've fitted, and a tiny bit of the jazz p/up WILL add high end clarity. If my Jaguar is anything to go by, it doesn't seem to suck any tone out of the P p/up. Certainly worth a try before taking the JV apart...you can always disconnect it again if it does affect the tone even when the jazz p/up is turned right down (there are also the Fender pots you can get that bypass completely at zero - are they call zero tone pots?) Just a thought Andy [/quote] Interesting idea: with the toggle in the middle I get equal parts of both, which is not what I'm after. Maybe I need a 5 way so can 'favour' the neck over the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 BTW, anyone know what the tonal difference is between the '57 pickup and the '62? Maybe it's the '57 that's in the JV though that's unlikely as I believe the bass is a '62 re-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1412779451' post='2571957'] Interesting idea: with the toggle in the middle I get equal parts of both, which is not what I'm after. Maybe I need a 5 way so can 'favour' the neck over the bridge. [/quote] Is there not a separate volume pot for each p/up? If there is, then just go for middle position on the 3-way and turn the P bass volume right up and the J p/up right down. If you only have provision for one pot, maybe use a stacked pot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul S Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I have stock pickups in mine with a J. East U Retro preamp. It does a 'sort of' Precision sound, but not a good old fashioned woody thump one. I can't honestly imagine getting that kind of tone from it, to be honest. I have 3 others Precisions, all of which do the old school thump thing. An early 80s '57 re-issue JV Squier, an 80s MIJ medium scale Squier and what started life as a 90s MIJ Fender but now sports a Mighty Mite Jazz neck - the last two have Fender 62 Re-Issue Pickups. Of the 3 I think the medium scale sounds nicest, the JV next then my bitsa. But it is a close run thing. The beauty of the medium scale is that it is under 8lbs, has a relatively thin neck and is uber-comfy - as well as sounding great. I am not sure these come around that often but, when one does, it sounds like the sort of thing you should nab! Or, thinking outside the box a bit, perhaps look out for a USA made Peavey Fury I. Very lightweight, very skinny neck and a hot pickup that can be tamed to give an old school thump if necessary. And can usually be found for very little money. Edited October 8, 2014 by Paul S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1412781740' post='2571993'] I have stock pickups in mine with a J. East U Retro preamp. It does a 'sort of' Precision sound, but not a good old fashioned woody thump one. I can't honestly imagine getting that kind of tone from it, to be honest. I have 3 others Precisions, all of which do the old school thump thing. An early 80s '57 re-issue JV Squier, an 80s MIJ medium scale Squier and what started life as a 90s MIJ Fender but now sports a Mighty Mite Jazz neck - the last two have Fender 62 Re-Issue Pickups. Of the 3 I think the medium scale sounds nicest, the JV next then my bitsa. But it is a close run thing. The beauty of the medium scale is that it is under 8lbs, has a relatively thin neck and is uber-comfy - as well as sounding great. I am not sure these come around that often but, when one does, it sounds like the sort of thing you should nab! Or, thinking outside the box a bit, perhaps look out for a USA made Peavey Fury I. Very lightweight, very skinny neck and a hot pickup that can be tamed to give an old school thump if necessary. And can usually be found for very little money. [/quote] Yeah, I tried various permutations with the original P pickup but it just wasn't doing it for me. On the subject of alternative basses, might look out for a mustang or something. They're medium scale, mostly, and scaled down a bit. But the Lyte plays so nicely.... [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1412781208' post='2571982'] Is there not a separate volume pot for each p/up? If there is, then just go for middle position on the 3-way and turn the P bass volume right up and the J p/up right down. If you only have provision for one pot, maybe use a stacked pot? [/quote] There was but I ripped it all out in favour of 1 vol, 1 tone and a toggle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 If you're lacking high end clarity (are we talking treble here?) I'd suggest you decrease the gap between strings and the split P pup rather than increase it. I think (correct me if this is wrong anybody) that having the pup closer to the strings increases treble response. What sort of gap have you got at the moment? With the strings fretted at the last fret aim for just under 1/8" gap and see if that helps the tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 8, 2014 Author Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1412783521' post='2572020'] If you're lacking high end clarity (are we talking treble here?) I'd suggest you decrease the gap between strings and the split P pup rather than increase it. I think (correct me if this is wrong anybody) that having the pup closer to the strings increases treble response. What sort of gap have you got at the moment? With the strings fretted at the last fret aim for just under 1/8" gap and see if that helps the tone. [/quote] I was under the impression that a smaller gap made the tone darker, which is why I increased the gap. Will check what it currently is and if it's not what you suggest, will try it. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobystig Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 (edited) I play a lyte as my main bass and love its tone I must admit I have never struggled for high end clarity I have the action on mine as low as possible, volume right up and all the other 3 pots centred, tweak on the amp to suit the venue and we are away It's mainly rock we play so a good thump is required, but I also play some of the chilli peepers stuff so the higher clarity is needed Edited October 8, 2014 by scoobystig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 [quote name='scoobystig' timestamp='1412800436' post='2572285'] I play a lyte as my main bass and love its tone I must admit I have never struggled for high end clarity I have the action on mine as low as possible, volume right up and all the other 3 pots centred, tweak on the amp to suit the venue and we are away It's mainly rock we play so a good thump is required, but I also play some of the chilli peepers stuff so the higher clarity is needed [/quote] Just as a matter of interest, do you play with the neck pickup only or do you mix in some bridge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobystig Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 I have the blend pot in the middle position, so I am assuming that is both pickups on together Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 (edited) Well I think I might have kind of solved this. What I had done on advice from someone here is solder a resistor with a tiny value (0.01) between the bridge pup and the pup selector. I'd done this because I'd read that when both pups are up full, there is a drop in the mids because of phase cancellation. I hadn't thought to take it out before because with the neck pickup selected, it should be completely isolated from the bridge one. However, taking it out has definitely improved the tone of the neck P pickup by brightening it up. Go figure. The only down-side is that when the pickup selector is in the middle position, there's a huge drop in volume to the point that setting is unusable. Not sure why just taking out the resistor would do this, as it's now the same as having both pickups on full. Might try putting a volume between each pickup and the selector. Maybe get my tech to do it for me.... Edited October 26, 2014 by Sharkfinger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 Just a thought, but are you using the original pots? I've no idea of the stock ones values, but going for a 500k pot will give you a brighter tone if it's currently fitted with 250k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted November 1, 2014 Author Share Posted November 1, 2014 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1414838125' post='2593774'] Just a thought, but are you using the original pots? I've no idea of the stock ones values, but going for a 500k pot will give you a brighter tone if it's currently fitted with 250k. [/quote] Hmmm, good point. Will check it tonight. Think my proper P has 500K pots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted November 3, 2014 Author Share Posted November 3, 2014 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1414838125' post='2593774'] Just a thought, but are you using the original pots? I've no idea of the stock ones values, but going for a 500k pot will give you a brighter tone if it's currently fitted with 250k. [/quote] Well, they're 250K tone pots, so might be worth changing them and we'll see if there's any difference. FWIW, the pots in my proper P has 250K pots as well but don't know what the resistance of the pickup is, so 250K might be well suited to it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted November 3, 2014 Share Posted November 3, 2014 [quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1415005329' post='2595421'] Well, they're 250K tone pots, so might be worth changing them and we'll see if there's any difference. FWIW, the pots in my proper P has 250K pots as well but don't know what the resistance of the pickup is, so 250K might be well suited to it.... [/quote] Yeah, 250k is standard on a Precision but you'll still get a brighter tone with a 500k pot in there. Maybe try a single 500k pot to see if you like what it does, as it's a relatively cheap experiment. There's some more info on this [url="http://cms.bassplayer.com/gear/1164/tech-bench---mod-squad-potent-pot-mod/27204"]here[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1415039964' post='2596012'] There's some more info on this [url="http://cms.bassplayer.com/gear/1164/tech-bench---mod-squad-potent-pot-mod/27204"]here[/url]. [/quote] 'Turd Polishing Syndrome'! Guilty..... OK, bought the 500K pot (thank you axetech) and swapped it out last night. Incidentally, tried the trad jazz vol / vol / tone in a line but even through headphones, I didn't like it. A very 'bland' tone, reminded me why I put it the toggle switch. Tried two vols through the toggle switch but didn't find and exact wiring diagram, so didn't work so reverted to what I have now but with a 500K pot. Sounded OK through the headphones but we'll see how it sounds live this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkfinger Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 kiOgon loom + Seymour duncan SPB-1 + new rotosound strings = clarity and snarling mid. Sorted. Seriously, the SPB-1 is almost a completely different animal to the fender original. Really didn't suit the bass or me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 [quote name='Sharkfinger' timestamp='1416685987' post='2612678'] kiOgon loom + Seymour duncan SPB-1 + new rotosound strings = clarity and snarling mid. Sorted. Seriously, the SPB-1 is almost a completely different animal to the fender original. Really didn't suit the bass or me. [/quote] Great news, Sharkfinger! Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Glad it's worked out for you. Those Lytes are great players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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