precision bass tone

[garry warrington]

Recently started
gigging again,have been playing for 30years.
I am using a GL tribute L2500 which has a good variation in tones.As a backup i recently went back to basics and purchased a frankenbass precision bass,
not a Fender. I decided i wanted more of of the classic p bass tone.ie Forget me nots and possibly All night long by Lionel richie,you know the sound.
I purchased some Seymour duncan Spb2 pickups and fitted them to the.which believe is a reliced maple body and rosewood neck.
Plugging in i just cant seem to get that tone,the best i can achieve is that Clash-should i stay or go sound.
Can anybody help should i be looking for a better quality neck,it lookes like a reliced cheap copy neck!!

[JamesBass]

[quote name='garry warrington' timestamp='1412803998' post='2572346']
Recently started
gigging again,have been playing for 30years.
I am using a GL tribute L2500 which has a good variation in tones.As a backup i recently went back to basics and purchased a frankenbass precision bass,
not a Fender. I decided i wanted more of of the classic p bass tone.ie Forget me nots and possibly All night long by Lionel richie,you know the sound.
I purchased some Seymour duncan Spb2 pickups and fitted them to the.which believe is a reliced maple body and rosewood neck.
Plugging in i just cant seem to get that tone,the best i can achieve is that Clash-should i stay or go sound.
Can anybody help should i be looking for a better quality neck,it lookes like a reliced cheap copy neck!!
[/quote]
What's under the scratch plate in terms of electronics? It might be that you could change out the pots and the capacitor, they have a rather large effect on the overall tone of your bass!

I've recently decided I need one P that's set up for a smooth, jazz(genre), motown vibe, think Pino and Jamerson. I then have another that can do the harder hitting more modern kinda vibe, strings play a big part for me as well as the way I actually play the bass. One of the basses, has/will have a pickup provided by Limelight basses and the other has an Aguilar AG 4P60, if the Limelight pickup doesn't cut it for me with the flats on I'll certainly stick another Aguilar in, as they can go from a modern to vintage vibe with a flick of the tone pot.

Personally I wouldn't worry about your neck unless it doesn't feel comfortable to play?

[discreet]

SPB-2 is a bit 'middly' and slightly hot... you may have more luck with the SPB-1.
Are you using rounds or flats? The neck [i]per se[/i] won't have a huge influence on tone - in this case. (Stands by for backlash).

[mickster]

Try some flats on it, will replace the grind with some smoother thuddy tones. Also don't be afraid to turn the tone knob most of the way down, and play with yr amp EQ. Both JJ Burnel and Jamerson played basically the same bass as you, the differences in sound are down to strings and EQ (and fingers v plectrum, and technique, but ya get my drift...)

Edited October 8, 2014 by mickster

[Spike Vincent]

As far as the Clash' s Should I stay or should I go, I'm fairly sure Simenon had Mighty Mite pickups in his precision.

[chris_b]

[quote name='garry warrington' timestamp='1412803998' post='2572346']
Can anybody help should i be looking for a better quality neck,it lookes like a reliced cheap copy neck!!
[/quote]

From what you've said, it sounds like you've reached the limitations of this instrument.

You should be looking for a better quality bass.

[PlungerModerno]

It could be the neck - if you're getting dead spots or inconsistent tuning / intonation issues.

If it stays in tune, all the notes work OK, and it doesn't need a truss rod adjustment once a week I'd say it's probably not the neck causing your woes. Neck issues tend to be 'orrible.
Strings and/or electronics is probably your bottleneck. Setup and technique are the next most likely, then Stuff like EQ, compression, and rig, then the room your in / headphones colouring what you hear - then the wood in the bass, and lastly things like how your feeling ATM, and what brand cable you're using.

All in my opinion of course. I can't prove much of what I've suggested, and won't try to - Suffice it to say I agree with those above suggesting string and pickup changes rather than a new neck ATM.
If you have the funds you could always do both . I'd explore recording a bassline, then EQing it (or playing with EQ while playing) to see can you get an idea for what's missing from, or getting in the way of, the sound you have in your head.

[Paul S]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1412805159' post='2572363']
SPB-2 is a bit 'middly' and slightly hot... you may have more luck with the SPB-1.
Are you using rounds or flats? The neck [i]per se[/i] won't have a huge influence on tone - in this case. (Stands by for backlash).
[/quote]

^This^ I'd say. I experimented with lots of pickups and strings to get the old school thump sound I have in my head. Fender '62 re-issue originals do it for me, with either flats to get a real thump or rounds for a slightly rockier edge (or perhaps the Forget me Nots punch).

[spacey]

I play the much berated Rickenbacker 4003s
It goes from nasty twang to boom reggae on one bass with a bit of Rush in the middle.

I tried the standard precision again for a gig and I know your feeling,the sound is OK, but thats it all night.
However I also have a P J precision, now, that second pick up makes all the difference, both on scoops mids right out, half on gives some finger click to the sound and gives you back that confidence of having some variation to add in.

Perhaps look for a PJ set up body, Squire did a beaster in the early 90's, unfortunately it had a jazz neck, but married to a maple P neck and I would dare say you would have a rather nice Precision bass.

[Lozz196]

There`s certainly some sort of effect.drive on Should I Stay, as Simenons bass tone for most of his other work is a lot different. Much warmer, traditional P-Bass sound. He was a flats user so maybe on this track they just upped the treble or mids a lot more which enabled the drive to come through.

Essentially it`s some sort of valve-grind that gives a lot of the sound on that track though, so depends on what the amp can do - maybe some sort of pre-amp pedal would do it, my Tech 21 VT DI can certainly do that sort of sound with a P-Bass strung with flats.

[spacey]

Engineers in those days new a secret trick to get those classic old bass tones.
They shut the amp in a booth, cranked it up and put a Mic in the booth.
These days with software based emulators, good bass tones never make it out of the mix.

Listening to isolated tracks, they sound terrible, but in the record mix those old mic up recordings just have a magic that you can not create.

[Lozz196]

Agree, have listened to a few of the isolated ones, John Deacons for example and they sound really rough, scratchy, middy, nasally, yet in the mix really present, powerful warm bass tones. Sometimes progress is the polar opposite - imv that is.

[garry warrington]

i also put rotosound strings,cts pots ,i am running it with the ashdown spyder 330(sounds good with my GL L2500)
i think the body is maple
what strings and amp combo would be best?

[simon1964]

I've just fitted a Seymour Duncan SPB-1 and one of Basschat's very own Ki0gon's vintage wiring kits to my Precision. The combination has exactly nailed the classic Precision tone for me.

[Geek99]

Thinking of getting a thumper pickup after talking to dave Walshe

[spacey]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1412883713' post='2573027']
Agree, have listened to a few of the isolated ones, John Deacons for example and they sound really rough, scratchy, middy, nasally, yet in the mix really present, powerful warm bass tones. Sometimes progress is the polar opposite - imv that is.
[/quote]

Totally agree, what sounds good on its own, is often pants mixed, the generic mid cut software emulation has knocked the bass guitar out of the mix on many recordings, it could be anything playing, synth, organ, no bass guitar, you need to dig out the vinyl these days to hear good old bass tones .

Bass players are partially to blame letting engineers be lazy with the bass, just plug it in the desk and use the software splodginater on it.
It is an instrument done, recorded out of the way.
The old masters fought their ground for the bass tone, it was identity, recognisable for your sound and style.
Today, the knackers are well and truly cut off the bass player before he even enters the studio.
It's only the bass...

[lojo]

Last night I did a pub gig through a mark bass rig on a P bass with my old flats on it, Eq all flat

2 other gigging bassists in the crowd , both where saying they loved the tone

Must admit , so do I

[discreet]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1413010193' post='2574028']
Last night I did a pub gig through a mark bass rig on a P bass with my old flats on it, Eq all flat...
[/quote]

I found that Markbass suits a P Bass very well. Very 'honest' and transparent tone.
I had a P, a Little Mark and a BFM 1X12 cab for a while. All you need, really!

Edited October 11, 2014 by discreet

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1412812470' post='2572429']
From what you've said, it sounds like you've reached the limitations of this instrument.

You should be looking for a better quality bass.
[/quote]

I'm not sure that the problem described has anything to do with the general quality of the instrument in this case.

I think the pickup the OP is using is probably not the best suited for the sound he's after. I would try a Wizard Thumper if you find one, or anything that's more "traditional", and don't forget the strings.
I have a cheapest of the cheap Sue Ryder P-bass with a Thumper and Rotosound rounds, and it's got the loveliest Precision sound, well balanced and punchy.

[chris_b]

Where do you draw the line when you're trying to polish a turd?

If the exercise is to mess about modding a bass then fine, but i didn't get that impression from the OP, so IMO there comes a time when a better instrument is what you need.

If the OP changes the neck, pickups etc he's going in the direction of Triggers broom . Just sayin.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1413010193' post='2574028']
Last night I did a pub gig through a mark bass rig on a P bass with my old flats on it, Eq all flat

2 other gigging bassists in the crowd , both where saying they loved the tone

Must admit , so do I
[/quote]

Thats why I went Markbass, every time I heard a bassist whose tone I liked, invariably it was a Markbass amp, and more often than not a Precision being used with it. The two just compliment so well.

[darren]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1412887894' post='2573107']
I've just fitted a Seymour Duncan SPB-1 and one of Basschat's very own Ki0gon's vintage wiring kits to my Precision. The combination has exactly nailed the classic Precision tone for me.
[/quote]

Out of interest, what capacitor did you go with in the wiring kit? I went 0.1uF but not installed the kit yet. Still wondering whether to upgrade the pickups in my Japanese PB57-US at the same time. I've got the KiOgon vintage wiring kit and some labella 760FL strings sorted. Just need to make a decision on whether or not to replace the Japanese made "US vintage" pickups. Been looking at the Fender Pure Vintage 58 P-Bass pickup on Thomann.

Darren

[simon1964]

[quote name='darren' timestamp='1413027629' post='2574275']
Out of interest, what capacitor did you go with in the wiring kit? I went 0.1uF but not installed the kit yet. Still wondering whether to upgrade the pickups in my Japanese PB57-US at the same time. I've got the KiOgon vintage wiring kit and some labella 760FL strings sorted. Just need to make a decision on whether or not to replace the Japanese made "US vintage" pickups. Been looking at the Fender Pure Vintage 58 P-Bass pickup on Thomann.

Darren
[/quote]

According to my PM exchange with Ki0gon the cap is a [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Vintage Sprague 0.1. Have to say that that doesn't mean a lot to me, save that Ki0gon advised it would give a "vintage old school" tone - which it does! [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Tough call on the pickups. The SPB1 is great, but I was replacing a generic pickup that had been fitted years ago. The US Vintage pickups fitted to my Japanese 70s P reissue were excellent, and I'm not sure the Seymour Duncans would have been a significant improvement.[/font][/color]

Edited October 11, 2014 by simon1964

[JamesBass]

[quote name='darren' timestamp='1413027629' post='2574275']


Out of interest, what capacitor did you go with in the wiring kit? I went 0.1uF but not installed the kit yet. Still wondering whether to upgrade the pickups in my Japanese PB57-US at the same time. I've got the KiOgon vintage wiring kit and some labella 760FL strings sorted. Just need to make a decision on whether or not to replace the Japanese made "US vintage" pickups. Been looking at the Fender Pure Vintage 58 P-Bass pickup on Thomann.

Darren
[/quote]
I'm in much the same process as you are! I've got John's 0.1uf cap, think it's the pacer cap? And I've got some TI flats now just need to decide if a pickup change is what I want as well or whether to try the strings and wiring with the stock MIM pickup or not! I know what pickup I'll be using if I do change it, I'm gonna go for an Aguilar AG4P60

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1413022096' post='2574202']
Where do you draw the line when you're trying to polish a turd?

If the exercise is to mess about modding a bass then fine, but i didn't get that impression from the OP, so IMO there comes a time when a better instrument is what you need.

If the OP changes the neck, pickups etc he's going in the direction of Triggers broom . Just sayin.
[/quote]

If he likes how the bass feels but it's a matter of the sound, we're talking well under <£100 (possibly more around £50, if going second hand) for a simple experiment with a different pickup. That doesn't seem crazy to me. In fact, if I liked how a bass feels but I wasn't entirely happy with the sound, I'd probably buy 2-3 different pickups that on paper look promising, and test them all to see whether one of them do the trick, then sell the rest.