Does body wood make a difference to the sound of a bass guitar?

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413188732' post='2575521']
Quite possible for Basswood, agreed.

I, like many others though, have changed the body of a bass whilst keeping everything else the same, and noticed a profound difference in tone. I will note though that there are differences between different bodies of the same wood, as there are differences between woods. Each body is effectively unique. However, I am convinced that there are also reasonable generalisations that can be stated about various woods as used in bass bodies. This really isn't the thread to go into it in detail though.

My initial comment about basswood construction in the Revelation Jazz bass on ebay will put many others off as well as me though.
[/quote]

Yes, many people have noticed a change in tone. The point of having very robustly designed experiments is to see whether the change in tone that has been noticed really exists, or whether it is (e.g.) a placebo effect. There is a huge amount of data and research that shows that human beings are very suggestible, and easily misled.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Annoying Twit

[neepheid]

Eyes are terrible listening devices.

[Adrenochrome]

Again I wish I could find the research on this , but it's been pretty much proven that they make very little difference to the sound of an electric solid-bodied bass.

[discreet]

If you have time on your hands today, you could read through this:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/73234-tonewoods/page__hl__tonewood"]http://basschat.co.u...e__hl__tonewood[/url]

But in short, I'm of the opinion that body wood makes very little or no difference to the tone of a bass. Leo Fender spent a long time getting the pickup position exactly to his liking on the first P bass - and he conducted these experiments on a plank of wood.

Fender's subsequent body wood choices were entirely down to what was most affordable and most abundant at the time and whether the body would be a natural, sunburst or solid colour finish. Tone considerations never came into it.

Edited October 13, 2014 by discreet

[uncle psychosis]

Short version: Possibly, but not enough to actually bother worrying about. Choose based on aesthetics and weight.

Longer version: I have a PhD in musical acoustics (admittedly not in string instruments) but I know enough about psychoacoustics and instrument variability to be dubious about some of the outlandish claims made by musicians when it comes to the noises that instruments make. The sound of a bass guitar is probably affected a bit by the wood from which its made but frankly everything else in the signal chain probably has as big if not a bigger effect. Any effect that the wood has is probably not even repeated across two bits of wood of the same species, so I don't think its really possible to make meaningful blanket statements about what different types of wood "sound like". Personally, I'd never even consider what a bass is made of when buying it other than 1) what does it look like and 2) how much does it weigh. If I want to tweak the sound a bit I'll adjust the EQ on my amp. Much more controllable and much more repeatable than worrying about whether alder "has more mids" than ash.

Disclaimer: this is for electric instruments. Acoustic ones are up for grabs

[PlungerModerno]

As I understand it - It's not certain either way.

The evidence I have seen strongly suggests body wood may affect tuning stability, sustain (and dead spots / irregularities in sustain) - but the rigidity, total mass, shape, and temperature of the body may all affect it too. The irregularity of wood means no two bodies (blanks or the finished article) are exactly the same - even if they come from the same plank.

I think it's very presumptuous to say "Maple sounds like X & Y compared to Mahogany" - It'd be fairer to say "In my experience, instruments using this wood type tend to lean towards X & Y tonally, whereas the other wood seems more ...." etc. etc. I don't begrudge anyone their personal opinion. I think it's silly to say it's certain however.

In my opinion it does have an effect. But it's tiny - AFAIK the plating on the control plates and the tuners has a bigger influence on tone!

EDIT: Uncle said it better before I got this posted!

Edited October 13, 2014 by PlungerModerno

[HowieBass]

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1413193729' post='2575576']
The evidence I have seen strongly suggests body wood may affect tuning stability, sustain (and dead spots / irregularities in sustain) - but the rigidity, total mass, shape, and temperature of the body may all affect it too. The irregularity of wood means no two bodies (blanks or the finished article) are exactly the same - even if they come from the same plank.
[/quote]

I reckon neck/fingerboard wood has more of an effect on matters such as tuning stability, sustain and dead spots than body wood - and talking about dead spots that's why people sometimes attach weights to a headstock to add mass to the neck (not the body). A bass body isn't going to be as susceptible to change as the neck and let's not forget that when people think that adding a high mass bridge benefits sustain they never seem to consider the fact that replacing tuners with lightweight machines might affect tone/sustain/dead spots. What I do wonder about is whether there's much audible difference between a chunky necked and a skinny necked bass.

Edited October 13, 2014 by HowieBass

[Acebassmusic]

I think it was on Talk Bass that a guy did such a test using a Jazz bass. He recorded the bass as standard and then swapped out the body for a random lump of wood he found. He was quite particular to place the bridge / pickups / action so that any changes were attributed to only the body wood. I think the result was that in this case there was very little discernable difference. I'll see if I can find the link......here it is :

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-the-difference.743932/"]http://www.talkbass.com/threads/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-the-difference.743932/[/url]

[LukeFRC]

I think to a certain extend the wood does affect the sound, the neck and body act as a spring and dampener to the vibrations in it - what it's made, and how it's constructed will have effects on the way a note acoustically sounds.
I have two warwicks with brand new strings on, both 4 string, both same brand, one is made of maple with wenge fretboard, the other is wenge and bubinga.... can you hear the difference unplugged.... nope.

can you make any sweeping generalisations? probably not.
is it worth stressing over "tone wood" in your custom build? probably not, find someone who knows how to use wood and trust their exp.
are pickups and pickup design far far more important?
yep

[discreet]

Great, so plywood it is, then!!

[EBS_freak]

In the case of an electric bass with a preamp... you could string a table up and put the electronics and pickups in it and it would sound pretty much the same as the bass the components came from.

Would be a bit of a bastard to play though.

[hamfist]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1413196738' post='2575623']
Great, so plywood it is, then!!
[/quote]

Rather good plywood than basswood for me !

I had an awesome old Korean Squier with a Ply body. Sounded great.


And going back to the Talkbass experiment. All it indicates is that the single "lumber" bass in that test sounded very similar to the alder bass used. Not that "all" or "most" crappy wood basses would sound the same. It is an experiment comparing two things. One cannot extrapolate the results too much.
I haven't read the entire thread but it doesn't say what wood the "lumber" plank bass was made from in the first few posts. It may have been a pretty decent piece of hardwood, despite being "scrap".

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Acebassmusic' timestamp='1413195878' post='2575602']
I think it was on Talk Bass that a guy did such a test using a Jazz bass. He recorded the bass as standard and then swapped out the body for a random lump of wood he found. He was quite particular to place the bridge / pickups / action so that any changes were attributed to only the body wood. I think the result was that in this case there was very little discernable difference. I'll see if I can find the link......here it is :

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-the-difference.743932/"]http://www.talkbass....ference.743932/[/url]
[/quote]

I don't think the Talkbass thread puts the issue to bed forever though. It shows that those particular two materials can sound similar under the conditions used, but we can't extrapolate that to say that [i]all[/i] body materials would sound the same - the data just isn't there for that.
It would be interesting to attempt a similar trial using woods of more disparate properties, say a soft, light piece of paulownia and a hard, dense piece of wenge or similar. If those couldn't be distinguished in a blind test, there might be more grounds for dismissing the notion of tonewoods in a solid body.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Beer of the Bass

[hamfist]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1413197758' post='2575646']
In the case of an electric bass with a preamp... you could string a table up and put the electronics and pickups in it and it would sound pretty much the same as the bass the components came from.
[/quote]

I disagree. Having changed bodies on active basses, I have definitely heard significant changes.

And (definitely not directed at you, EBS freak) using the psychoacoustics argument to always discount anyone who expresses the opinion that they have heard differences when using different wood/bodies is just rather lazy IMO.
These same people who have heard tonal differences have also NOT heard tonal differences with other changes. I think it unlikely that they were significantly more likely to "want " to hear changes in bodies/woods rather than other changes like pre-amps or pickups for example.
I have changed everything that it is possible to change on a bass. Many, if not most, of these changes have made no significant tonal difference to my ears. But changing bodies has .... every time I'd say. Same with changing necks (but an even great effect IME).

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1413195542' post='2575599']
I reckon neck/fingerboard wood has more of an effect on matters such as tuning stability, sustain and dead spots than body wood - and talking about dead spots that's why people sometimes attach weights to a headstock to add mass to the neck (not the body). A bass body isn't going to be as susceptible to change as the neck and let's not forget that when people think that adding a high mass bridge benefits sustain they never seem to consider the fact that replacing tuners with lightweight machines might affect tone/sustain/dead spots. What I do wonder about is whether there's much audible difference between a chunky necked and a skinny necked bass.
[/quote]

Indeed - unless it's a single cut bodystyle I'd imagine the body has almost no detectable influence on things like dead spots / sustain.
"[i]What I do wonder about is whether there's much audible difference between a chunky necked and a skinny necked bass.[/i]" Don't we all! I know I play them very differently!

[quote name='Acebassmusic' timestamp='1413195878' post='2575602']
I think it was on Talk Bass that a guy did such a test using a Jazz bass. He recorded the bass as standard and then swapped out the body for a random lump of wood he found. He was quite particular to place the bridge / pickups / action so that any changes were attributed to only the body wood. I think the result was that in this case there was very little discernable difference. I'll see if I can find the link......here it is :

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/threads/scrap-lumber-bass-vs-alder-bass-can-you-tell-the-difference.743932/"]http://www.talkbass....ference.743932/[/url]
[/quote]

Interesting test - I'll have to look into it!

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1413195931' post='2575604']
I think to a certain extend the wood does affect the sound, the neck and body act as a spring and dampener to the vibrations in it - what it's made, and how it's constructed will have effects on the way a note acoustically sounds.
I have two warwicks with brand new strings on, both 4 string, both same brand, one is made of maple with wenge fretboard, the other is wenge and bubinga.... can you hear the difference unplugged.... nope.

can you make any sweeping generalisations? probably not.
is it worth stressing over "tone wood" in your custom build? probably not, find someone who knows how to use wood and trust their exp.
are pickups and pickup design far far more important?
yep
[/quote]

+1, If only for the stability of the right choice in woods & construction!

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1413197758' post='2575646']
In the case of an electric bass with a preamp... you could string a table up and put the electronics and pickups in it and it would sound pretty much the same as the bass the components came from.

Would be a bit of a bastard to play though.
[/quote]

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Interesting topic. I have yet to read all of the thread btw.
I have an observation or two;
When I used to have a hohner headless bass.. It used to sound a bit muffled compRed. To a steinberger. Was this the pickups or the body?
My Washburn status looks and sounds ultra professional. Body is walnut.
My jack Daniels bass is a basswood body. The band used to love the sound but to me, it sounded like the hohner and not as powerful as the other2.
My vester fretless is made of bubbinga and sounds great too. Not too heavy either

[discreet]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413197864' post='2575649']
Rather good plywood than basswood for me!
[/quote]

It's going to be much more stable. Laminates are used in some very high-end basses.

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1413199953' post='2575696']
It's going to be much more stable. Laminates are used in some very high-end basses.
[/quote]

Aye. In cabinet construction, acoustic instruments, construction (i.e. buildings) and in aeroplane building* - laminate (when done right) means much stronger wood for any given thickness.

* [url="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito[/url]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1413198472' post='2575670']...But changing bodies has .... every time I'd say. Same with changing necks (but an even great effect IME).
[/quote]

Not contradicting here, but wondering whether it's the changing bodies that counts, or changing the body woods..? Maybe (or maybe not..?) changing one body for another, same wood, would also have an effect..? Different examples of the same bass have differing tones, don't they..? Is there a definite relation between essence used (maple, basswood etc...) and a specific tonal character..? It's not been proven, it would seem. Different cuts from the same timber seem to have as much influence as changing the type of wood. Hmm...

[PlungerModerno]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1413199805' post='2575694']
Interesting topic. I have yet to read all of the thread btw.
I have an observation or two;
When I used to have a hohner headless bass.. It used to sound a bit muffled compRed. To a steinberger. Was this the pickups or the body?
My Washburn status looks and sounds ultra professional. Body is walnut.
My jack Daniels bass is a basswood body. The band used to love the sound but to me, it sounded like the hohner and not as powerful as the other2.
My vester fretless is made of bubbinga and sounds great too. Not too heavy either
[/quote]

Not to sound too harsh - but don't they all have different electronics? I'd wager (If I were the kind to wager) that the strings & electrics are the biggest deciders as far as tone goes.
Also your playing changes between instruments - if one fits you and your playing much better the result will likely be a more pleasing sound.

I think so anyway. My tuppence anyhoo. I accept I can be very wrong.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1413197758' post='2575646']
In the case of an electric bass with a preamp... you could string a table up and put the electronics and pickups in it and it would sound pretty much the same as the bass the components came from.

Would be a bit of a bastard to play though.
[/quote]
Was it Bernie Goodfellow that said the woods do make a difference but no two are the same even from the same type of wood so you can't 'spec' a type of wood for a type of tone making the whole argument basically a non starter? He said he doesn't know what it will sound like until he plugs it in didn't he? And the best sounding bass he made was made from pieces of scrap wood glued together for shits and giggles!

Edited October 13, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413202668' post='2575748']
Was it Bernie Goodfellow that said the woods do make a difference but no two are the same even from the same type of wood so you can't 'spec' a type of wood for a type of tone making the whole argument basically a non starter? He said he doesn't know what it will sound like until he plugs it in didn't he? And the best sounding bass he made was made from pieces of scrap wood glued together for shits and giggles!
[/quote] which would make sense how we can buy loads of basses and every so often find one where the sound, weight, pickups, look and feel in our hands all fit together to be an excellent instrument.

I do find the whole discussion a bit odd. I kinda want to go, yes of course the wood makes a massive difference, it's an firstly a acoustic instrument with a pickup..... but then when we get into a discussion about "tonewoods" then I want to point out that it really makes very little difference.
The sound of the modern bass guitar is derived, or we understand in relation to the sound of a fender.... and he used the woods he could get that mechanically worked and he could source easily. It was a mass market product.

[Lozz196]

I`d say yes in direct comparison to others, but no in terms of being able to say, on hearing one bass/instrument alone, what wood it was made of. All of the ash bodied/maple necked Precisions I`ve played and heard have sounded much more aggressive than their alder/rosewood cousins, which seem fuller and warmer. But then there are electrics/pickups to take into consideration as well.

[stingrayPete1977]

Even if we did know one mans "killer top end" is the next guys "I cant cut the treble, tried eveything what can I do?" Thread. Possibly, just possibly a passive bass could be more noticeable but bang a MM pickup and preamp on a lump of pine and it would sound fairly stingrayish even if you needed to cut or boost a bit.

[Annoying Twit]

In a discussion such as this, it's always easy to talk about personal experience, the statements of experts, and what seems logical. However, there are lots of examples where all of these can be referenced, but even then, the claim is wrong.

If we want to know if body wood makes a significant (e.g. audible to a human) difference, then the only way to know for sure is a well designed and executed experiment. And when experiments have been done, they suggest that body wood does not make an appreciable difference to the tone of a solid body electric guitar/bass.

This doesn't mean that the question is answered. It's often possible to design a more robust experiment. However, from the actual information we have, the claim that body wood does not make a significant difference seems to be winning out.

There are plenty of examples of how myths can take hold. E.g. bi-wiring of amps has been shown by scientific tests to be worthless. However, speaker manufacturers don't dare to release speakers without ports for bi-wiring, as they wouldn't be able to sell them. The myth is too strongly and widely believed.

It could well be that the same applies to electric solid-body bass body woods.