Bass Player's Elbow / tendonitis

[vinorange]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]Hello fellow bass players.[/size][/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]This is a cry for help, or maybe a small whimper.[/size][/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]I've been playing for 30+ years and 6 months ago developed tendonitis on the outside of my right elbow which was as a result of a heavy night's gigging - or rather the heavy night was the straw that broke the camel's back. I play finger style and play heavily so this is how it started. I have had a course of steroid injections which take away the symptoms for round a month and then it comes back. The specialist I saw is particularly fond of surgery so suggested a "muscle snip" as the next option. Now I'm not having any of that unless I become desperate.......[/size][/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]Has anyone else managed to get tendonitis in the picking elbow and has anyone discovered a cure short of continual cortisone injections or an operation to reduce the pull of the tendon [/size][/size][/font][font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]on the elbow? [/size][/size][/font][font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]I was directed to the use of castor oil in a surrane placed on the elbow but that didnt work..........and I'm not stopping playing so that option is out of the window too.[/size][/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=3][size=5]Cheers[/size][/size][/font]

[Johnm93]

I had tendonitis from playing squash.
After the (two) cortisone injections, it's a case of physio for a while, then keep it strapped up when you do anything physical.
Just remember not to agravate it and take ibuprufen when it hurts.
It takes a few years, but it should be fine.

John.

[KK Jale]

I had bad tennis elbow - the same pain on the upper outside of the elbow, an inch or two down the forearm - and a friend gave me some exercises which helped over a period of time… quite a few weeks. I still do them now and again.

I'll share them with you but they are NOT a substitute for the advice of a qualified physiotherapist…

Ex 1. Kneel in front of a low coffee table with arms slightly extended and wrists hanging over the far edge. Ball your hands lightly into fists (it's important to do both arms as it gives you a better judgement of how hard you're pushing yourself).

From a horizontal position, curl your fists downwards, then lift back up. It should take between 1 and 2 seconds. Do NOT go above horizontal: level to downwards only. You need to do lots of reps; try several groups of 50 spread over a day to begin with.

Ex 2. Similar to above, but using a weight in the problem arm's hand: about the weight of a can of beans is good, but preferably something smaller which allows a compact fist. Very very very very slowly, drop your hand from horizontal to fully downwards. DO NOT lift it back up; instead, reach over with your FREE hand and use that to lift your hand and the weight back up to horizontal. Do not go above horizontal. Many less reps with this one. Do not continue past a slight tiredness. If in doubt, stop. Like, now.

Did I mention these exercises are not a substitute for the advice of a qualified physiotherapist?

Edited October 13, 2014 by KK Jale

[thisnameistaken]

OK first up rule out whatever else you're doing with your arms that could be causing damage. If you've ruled all those out, you have to get serious about your bass guitar technique.

Change the way you play. Play softer. Find other ways to get whatever dynamics you want. You must change the way you play or stop playing altogether. Those steroid injections will mess you up in the long term.

You must be really over-doing it. Get a teacher. A professional bass player, not a guitarist. A proper teacher. And do what they tell you to do. And if it's not what you're used to doing, just suck it up and do what you're told.

Or get prepared for giving up playing.

Edit: I've had major tendon problems in both wrists recently. Recovery is pretty slow when it gets to the point that it's painful, but you won't recover at all if you don't change what you're doing, the problem will recur. It took me over a year to get back to playing without pain, and two years until the pain went away altogether. It still flares up sometimes. Do everything you can to minimise it. From your post the most obvious thing is that you pick too hard. You'll probably find you're also stopping notes on the fingerboard with too much pressure. It'll be a difficult habit to break I reckon.

Edited October 13, 2014 by thisnameistaken

[Cairobill]

Yup - a possible solution to your issues is to have a belt and braces overhaul of how you play with your right hand. Adopting a new technique could see you using your muscles and tendons in a different way and the repetitive nature of the strain will disappear.

Here are a couple of shots of Gary Willis playing with his VERY light touch, three fingers and a ramp. The key thing is letting your set up and gear do the work, no heavy picking. Low action is essential and ramps are very useful as they instil a muscle memory in your fingers to not dig in.

It will feel weird at first but is worth getting under your belt. Also, as someone said above, it would be useful finding a teacher who can school you in this stuff

Slow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_xvmexPsCc

Fast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88l_qCfZwlU

I used to play with a very aggressive right hand but saw the writing on the wall and now play with a much more measured amount of pressure on the right hand.

Good luck!

[vinorange]

Thanks for all the advice there.

I've already changed my playing style. I figured that was the first error. I now play with a flattened right wrist to minimise the pull where the tendon attaches to the outer elbow.

I'm going to have a good look at those technique tips though as longevity is the name of the game now - I'm 46 and want a good few years of playing yet before I give it up.

Thanks for the tips but does anybody have any homeopathic remedies out there?

[yorks5stringer]

Acupuncture may help also : re a homeopathic remedy Ruta is the remedy for tendons, Mrs YFS said she has a few spare if you want some sending rather than buying tube at c£5 in Boots?

[vinorange]

Top tip thanks. I'll be off out to try some Ruta tomorrow.

Thanks for the offer to send some (I say some but I don't even know what it is yet!) but I'll pop to boots or somewhere tomorrow and get some. I've got to go out to get my eden 800 in for a service anyway so I'll kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

Thanks

[deepbass5]

Had this bad on my left elbow fretting hand, But as "thisnameistaken" check out what else is causing it as well as bass playing. Computer work leaning on desks while working etc etc. and rest rest rest, stop and change habits
I am fine now but went on for couple of months.
Also lifting gear and using elbows to open doors - bad news

[vinorange]

Now I had a look at a ramp and that may stop me playing so hard.

Any advice on anybody who makes custom ramps for bass?

[dand666]

Interesting thread for me. Currently on a ferry gig for 2 months, playing every single night for up to 5x45mins. My hands/arms are really starting to hurt. If anyone has anymore helpful tips please share!!

[chris_b]

Don't slouch.

Warm up before you play.

Alter your playing position to lower the bass and straighten your wrists.

Lower the action.

Turn up the volume so you can develop a light touch and play with less energy.

[yorks5stringer]

Look at Happy Jacks warm up video too!

[vinorange]

Top tip from Chris B there. Straighten the wrist, increase volume and don't play too hard.

My symtpoms developed after playing with a hinged wrist. I have no idea why I was playing like that - maybe I used a different strap and bass was higher up - but I caught a glimpse of my right hand playing position in a mirror and was amazed to see my wrist almost 90 degree hinged.
Speaking to a phyio after being diagnosed with tendonitis, the way I was playing stretched the tendon in the forearm and then the repetitive hard picking of the strings put undue tension on the point where the tendon joins the elbow.
She also said that once tendonitis is with you then the only way out is to re-programme the muscles in the forearm to aborb the impact of the pmovement of the tendon.
That's where I am up to now. Using a thera flexibar 3 times a day with 15 reps to try to build the muscle to stop the impact on the elbow.

The only thing is that it still hurts lke mad and isn't really getting anywhere which is why I began the post - to see if anyone knows of a homeopathic remedy to assist.

[sblueplanet]

I have tennis-elbow in my right arm. No idea how it started. Saw a specialist and got some physio. The physio helps (like the exercises stated above) but the best thing for me was to simply take a break from playing bass. A period of complete rest for any injury is the best method of rehab.

[vinorange]

Ah yeah - there is that.

The best remedy is to stop playing and give it a rest.

[Deep Thought]

I had tennis elbow, I'm convinced it was learning to play 'Hit me with your rhythm stick' that set mine off. I had a couple of months off work and two steroid injections, but exercises very similar to those previously described sorted mine out, and it no longer bothers me. Stretching the forearm tendons and taking the strain off the lateral epicondule (where the tendon attaches to the bone) is the key.

[vinorange]

Looks like I'm on the right lines with the flexibar exercises.

It seems that the slower the exercise is performed, the more effective it is. My tendonitis is getting slightly better so 3 weeks into the twist exercise is maybe too early to judge. The condition seems to take at least 6 weeks and sometimes way longer to sort.