Pinball Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I was talking to a retailer earlier this week who was telling me that he felt that Fender are loosing it big time. Why? 1. There are big depts 2. Their pricing has been all over the place in the last couple of years. 3. Fender bought up a lot of brands for a planned stock market floatation but are now selling them all off again. A friend of his, who deals mainly in Fender brand acoustic guitars, has seen his top two top selling Fender owned brands disappear this year-first Guild and now Takamine. See link: [url="https://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/read/takamine-to-part-ways-with-fender/019354"]https://www.mi-pro.c...h-fender/019354[/url] Whats going on? Edited October 17, 2014 by Pinball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 There may be an opportunity if some major players 'offload' some Takamine stock..? It's happened before in similar circumstances; watch out for some 'promotional' deals from Germany or elsewhere..? Just sayin'. [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Storm clouds have been hovering over Fender (FMIC) for some years now. It was not long ago that their IPO was pulled in the face of some uncertainty. It is also rumoured that FMIC is carrying debt running into the hundreds of millions. Add to this back-story recent developments in governance (Bono, Edge, bloke from 'Beats' to board), the relative invisibility of Fender's corporate officers, a declining world guitar market and a plethora of marginally different products. We might also note that FMIC is not a self-owned company but operates at the behest of various investors, some being of the venture capital variety notorious for their short attention span. I suspect we may hear depressing news in the future. Time, perhaps, to lay in a hoard of 2015 Fenders. Edited October 18, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subbeh Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I wonder how their direct to consumer retail move is working for them? I know more stores in the US are baulking at their unrealistic demands, I don't think cutting out the middle man would compensate enough for a decreasing presence in retail stores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Making basses in China with the Fender Logo was to me the biggest mistake ever in devaluing the brand. The Mex instruments are much worse than the Squire special series basses in quality, the whole range is just a complete mess. USA basses with neck pockets you can put plectrums in !. The Fender Logo should in my opinion only be used on the very best USA instruments and use Squire for everything else. The brand has lost its Kudos, it's no longer a premium instrument brand, you can buy Fender branded Chinese basses ? WTF, sorry, but I really do hope they sell up and someone takes over and puts the Fender brand back where it belongs. Chasing the sub prime instrument market has not done them any favours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413576549' post='2579868'] Making basses in China with the Fender Logo was to me the biggest mistake ever in devaluing the brand. The Mex instruments are much worse than the Squire special series basses in quality, the whole range is just a complete mess. USA basses with neck pockets you can put plectrums in !. The Fender Logo should in my opinion only be used on the very best USA instruments and use Squire for everything else. The brand has lost its Kudos, it's no longer a premium instrument brand, you can buy Fender branded Chinese basses ? WTF, sorry, but I really do hope they sell up and someone takes over and puts the Fender brand back where it belongs. Chasing the sub prime instrument market has not done them any favours. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I preferred the old days when Fenders were made in America and everything else that looked like a Jazz bass or Precision was a cope, and cost no more than 25% of the real thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1413578064' post='2579895'] I preferred the old days when Fenders were made in America and everything else that looked like a Jazz bass or Precision was a cope, and cost no more than 25% of the real thing. [/quote] [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413576549' post='2579868'] Making basses in China with the Fender Logo was to me the biggest mistake ever in devaluing the brand. The Mex instruments are much worse than the Squire special series basses in quality, the whole range is just a complete mess. USA basses with neck pockets you can put plectrums in !. The Fender Logo should in my opinion only be used on the very best USA instruments and use Squire for everything else. The brand has lost its Kudos, it's no longer a premium instrument brand, you can buy Fender branded Chinese basses ? WTF, sorry, but I really do hope they sell up and someone takes over and puts the Fender brand back where it belongs. Chasing the sub prime instrument market has not done them any favours. [/quote] It's not just the Fender brand now. it would be nice to see fine brands such as Guild and Takamine retain some integrity. Maybe even brands like Genz Benz could make a comeback Edited October 17, 2014 by Pinball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I've still never played a Mexican Fender that I'd pay any sort of money for. I've played two US Fenders that have been sublime, the rest distinctly average. Every Squire I've played has been good to excellent though. In fact when I bought my Squire VM jazz a few weeks ago I tested it against a US Fender with a mind to buy a Fender if it was head and shoulders above the Squire. Other than being a bit lighter and having a slightly sweeter sound (due to the custom shop pickups) the Squire was by far the better bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 While I cannot say very much I was a Fender employee, now I am not and I am not the only one who was let go. Whether there is something to that I really can't say but it was strange how one day we seemed to be flying and the next we where at the dole office. I hope there is not a serious problem, I know a lot of people there and I love the brand and always will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I love Fender, am yet to find a Precision I can`t get on with, though I`ve definitely had ones that I preferred over others - the post 2008 US Standard Series for example. Re MIMs, well I`ve also found the post 2008s to be really good - put these and pre ones together and the post 2008s really stand out as better basses. I think where Fender have gone wrong is simply too many levels - Squier Affinity/Standard/VM/CV, Fender MIM/Classic/US Special/Standard etc. Looks to me like trying to get a piece of everyones budget as they have an item for everyones budget. Now I can see the logic, but then with t`internet, there will be so many reviews/comparisons, that inevitably people can offer opinions about Squier CVs beating MIMs etc (not taking a pop at anyone with this comment btw, using it as it seems to be an often raised comment) and maybe people will take their money elsewhere thinking they can`t rely on each Fender or Squier to be the same and they don`t want to get the dog so to speak. Think if there had just been Squier, MIM, US Standard then it would/should have been easy to differentiate between them, and people could make easy choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) [quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1413585676' post='2580016'] While I cannot say very much I was a Fender employee, now I am not and I am not the only one who was let go. [/quote] I'd be interested to know why you can't say very much. Edited October 17, 2014 by BetaFunk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Maybe they're heading back to an early-80s style contraction, cutting the line back to a handful of the most popular instruments, and scaling back production...? Wouldn't be a bad thing from a brand POV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I think cutting back on models and just streamlining the range would be a very good idea, but as long as they don't follow Gibson and slap on a 30% price increase as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I too think that they've diversified the model range too much - the brand has lost focus and identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413576549' post='2579868'] WTF, sorry, but I really do hope they sell up and someone takes over and puts the Fender brand back where it belongs. [/quote] Of course, the buyer could be Chinese, but that sort of thing has never happened before. Has it? Post #15 really is where they went wrong. As a buyer, I'm confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 The only Fender basses who deserve the Fender logo are the Custom Shop ones. It was in 1978 when I had my first Fender Jazz Bass new and since then, year by year the overall quality wend down drived by money related decisions and greed. The only plus was the Custom Shop opening ( but at what price...) Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413619451' post='2580132'] The only Fender basses who deserve the Fender logo are the Custom Shop ones. [/quote] Nah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 It's been said before. I'm sure they'll be around for a good while yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1413619635' post='2580135'] Nah. [/quote] Ok a Nah from a Fender 71 Precision fretted & fretless owner... I got that. Lol Best Edited October 18, 2014 by TheSiberian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Generaly for the things that are not to my liking I consider they are not ok or they suck. Except the CS Fenders the others are not ok but marketing oriented. For the Mexican, chinese or North Pole made ones...they just suck. Best Edited October 18, 2014 by TheSiberian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413619855' post='2580140'] Ok a Nah from a Fender 71 Precision fretted & fretless owner... I got that. Lol Best [/quote] But also a 'nah' from someone who's owned a fairly recent Tony Franklin P, and a Roscoe Beck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413576549' post='2579868'] Making basses in China with the Fender Logo was to me the biggest mistake ever in devaluing the brand. The Mex instruments are much worse than the Squire special series basses in quality, the whole range is just a complete mess. USA basses with neck pockets you can put plectrums in !. The Fender Logo should in my opinion only be used on the very best USA instruments and use Squire for everything else. The brand has lost its Kudos, it's no longer a premium instrument brand, you can buy Fender branded Chinese basses ? WTF, sorry, but I really do hope they sell up and someone takes over and puts the Fender brand back where it belongs. Chasing the sub prime instrument market has not done them any favours. [/quote] I would agree................but Fender are way too far down the line in buy-outs and take-overs and rebrands. I always think it is a devaluation of a brand to ship to the far east for manufacture but it is a cost exercise that no accountant will ignore, given the chance. The problem with Fender, is as you say... what the hell does Fender stand for...? IMO, only the American Deluxe upwards is worth looking at... otherwise you are sitting with a lot of product that you really don't want to. They really need to get back to making something that Fender actually stands for... and rebrand/rename the rest.. This is why the upmarket Fender bass clone does so well... IMO Edited October 18, 2014 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wooks79 Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) I can't say that I would ever even consider paying the prices for a CS Fender, if I was dropping that sort of money there are far more exciting basses in my opinion! I own a 2010 American Jazz Deluxe V and its gorgeous, and also a '79 Precision that I love. I don't think you can make such a sweeping generalisation as all Fenders after a certain year suck... bit silly that. Edited October 18, 2014 by Wooks79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='spacey' timestamp='1413576549' post='2579868'] Making basses in China with the Fender Logo was to me the biggest mistake ever in devaluing the brand. [/quote] How come? My Chinese built Coronado is faultless. I think if you understand the location of build and the pricing structure you can find a bass that is a good fit. The beauty with the proliferation of the brand is if you can end up with a good far East bass at a very reasonable price. My Coronado purchase added value to my perception of the brand. I think poor USA builds are far more damaging to the brand. Edited October 18, 2014 by Billy Apple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.