Pinball Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 I think a lot of what is being discussed are just symptoms of poor or reactive management. As a company they seem to be floundering around, changing direction and relying on some old but very good designs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413619451' post='2580132'] The only Fender basses who deserve the Fender logo are the Custom Shop ones. It was in 1978 when I had my first Fender Jazz Bass new and since then, year by year the overall quality wend down drived by money related decisions and greed. The only plus was the Custom Shop opening ( but at what price...) Best [/quote] I had a 1976 in 1976 it was extremely poor. I have a 2008 that is great. I also have had a 2006 which was great and a 2008 Fretless that was excellent. None of them custom shop. But maybe you just don't like Fenders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 With the market share that they have, and the fact that many of their instruments are simple and easy to build, you'd have to wonder how they can't be profitable. If they are saddled with debt, that could mean that even an otherwise structurally sound company could go under. However, if that happened, I'm sure that someone would buy the brand itself, effectively separating the brand from its debtors, and the company could then continue under its new ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1413620484' post='2580153'] How come? My Chinese built Coronado is faultless. I think if you understand the location of build and the pricing structure you can find a bass that is a good fit. The beauty with the proliferation of the brand is if you can end up with a good far East bass at a very reasonable price. My Coronado purchase added value to my perception of the brand. I think poor USA builds are far more damaging to the brand. [/quote] A guy with a CNC machine in the States, a guy with a CNC machine in China. If it's the same quality wood, what's the difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='MacDaddy' timestamp='1413622448' post='2580186'] A guy with a CNC machine in the States, a guy with a CNC machine in China. If it's the same quality wood, what's the difference? [/quote] Finishing, fretwork, etc. I'm not a bass connoisseur, but I thought that the Chinese made Fender that I tried felt very nice to play. I didn't plug it in, and heard later that the pickups aren't the best. But it felt very nice to me, and above the Mexican Fenders and Squiers I tried at the time. But, I just wanted to address the CNC comment, which I think is over-simplifying the matter. Edited October 18, 2014 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) Mercedes builds Mercs in China. So why not manufacture Fenders there as well. Becoming a boutique guitar builder , based in California, is not what Fender is all about. Fender's were created to be the Ford model T of the guitar world, affordable by Joe Public everywhere. Edited October 18, 2014 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I've heard within the MI that Fender will be cutting back the range and making their dealer selection tougher, the usual trick of ensuring the dealer has a set limit of stock. They've always done that, but it looks like it may be higher? IMO, the range is too big and that's not easy for dealers in terms of stock keeping. Many industries are streamlining these days but I doubt Fender will ever be in serious trouble. Losing Takamine is not a problem, distributions deals change on a regular basis in MI and Takamine will probable go solo just like Fender did in the UK in 2003. Long live Fender I say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1413623048' post='2580201'] Mercedes builds Mercs in China. So why not manufacture Fenders there as well. Becoming a boutique guitar builder , based in California, is not what Fender is all about. Fender's were created to be the Ford model T of the guitar world, affordable by Joe Public everywhere. [/quote] +1 I like that kids and people on a budget can buy a Fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1413623048' post='2580201'] Mercedes builds Mercs in China. So why not manufacture Fenders there as well. Becoming a boutique guitar builder , based in California, is not what Fender is all about. Fender's were created to be the Ford model T of the guitar world, affordable by Joe Public everywhere. [/quote] While I agree with the point you are making, in the 1970s a new Fender Precision bass cost the equivalent of several weeks wages for most people. It was a big outlay to buy a Fender. Which is why there were so many cheaper copies being sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I think bringing back some half decent colours to the range would be a start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1413623048' post='2580201'] Mercedes builds Mercs in China. So why not manufacture Fenders there as well. Becoming a boutique guitar builder , based in California, is not what Fender is all about. Fender's were created to be the Ford model T of the guitar world, affordable by Joe Public everywhere. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Is that model devised in the 1950's still viable..given that the company is nothing like that company all those years ago.. And if that model was working today, we probably wouldn't be talking about Fender being in 'trouble' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Accountants, VC's and the like are a funny bunch. Take a company started by an enthusiast and technical specialist to build excellent products, the best possible, then take it to market. Now expand out and you need capital, then it goes wrong. Decision makers are only looking at spreadsheets, couldn't give a toss about your basswood, pots, magic O2 free copper windings etc. I deal with quite a few London based finance types as part of my engineering consultancy. I'm constantly amazed by how little any of these very wealthy people know about the markets/investments they are looking at from the technical side. They have much more fancy suits than me, and a nicer office, and know more about business finance than I ever will (or want to..) but to them wood is wood, and copper wire is copper wire, and their first phone call after investment is to China! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1413621523' post='2580170'] But maybe you just don't like Fenders. [/quote] This is the reason I am upset of all this trouble with regular Fender basses... Becsuse I like Fender as I like Harleys and Ampeg. But they shifted from doing honest basses to a fast food style brand. I know there is an army of Fender die hard fans overthere that are ready to get extatic on a chinese made Jazz Bass but it's just not me. If you don't want to hear critics... Than play some Custom Shop Fenders and maybe you'll feel the difference and you'll become more critic in the same time. Best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413624779' post='2580221'] Than play some Custom Shop Fenders and maybe you'll feel the difference and you'll become more critic in the same time. Best [/quote] I agree with you that CS basses are amazing, I proudly own 3, but to many people they are just another bass and not worth the cash, I personally don't agree with that in the slightest as CS basses stand out a mile to me, but I guess it's relative to taste? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413624779' post='2580221'] If you don't want to hear critics... Than play some Custom Shop Fenders and maybe you'll feel the difference and you'll become more critic in the same time. Best [/quote] I can't comment on Masterbuilds, 'cos I haven't played any in living memory, but every time I pick up a Teambuilt CS I think... 'nice', but not much else. And I've played a couple of stinkers. Certainly nothing that's grabbed me by the lapels like my Limelight J relic did, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiliwailer Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='Diablo' timestamp='1413624722' post='2580219'] [/quote] Off topic, but the Hartke bass thing in your signature made me smile. I remember in the late 90's Hartke gave those basses to dealer if they ordered loads of amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413624779' post='2580221'] This is the reason I am upset of all this trouble with regular Fender basses... Becsuse I like Fender as I like Harleys and Ampeg. But they shifted from doing honest basses to a fast food style brand. I know there is an army of Fender die hard fans overthere that are ready to get extatic on a chinese made Jazz Bass but it's just not me. If you don't want to hear critics... Than play some Custom Shop Fenders and maybe you'll feel the difference and you'll become more critic in the same time. Best [/quote] I'm quite happy to hear criticism of Fender - if you read what I wrote you'll see I criticised them too - but I didn't agree with your claim that they have consistently got worse since the 1970s and that's why I criticised your claim. But perhaps you don't want to hear critics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1413585350' post='2580010'] I've still never played a Mexican Fender that I'd pay any sort of money for. I've played two US Fenders that have been sublime, the rest distinctly average. Every Squire I've played has been good to excellent though. In fact when I bought my Squire VM jazz a few weeks ago I tested it against a US Fender with a mind to buy a Fender if it was head and shoulders above the Squire. Other than being a bit lighter and having a slightly sweeter sound (due to the custom shop pickups) the Squire was by far the better bass. [/quote] +1 maybe part reason they created a rod for their own back with the Squier's being 'too good' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 ...and actually, one of the last 'new' Fenders to grab my by the lapels was a Mexican road-worn J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSiberian Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1413625467' post='2580233'] I'm quite happy to hear criticism of Fender - if you read what I wrote you'll see I criticised them too - but I didn't agree with your claim that they have consistently got worse since the 1970s and that's why I criticised your claim. But perhaps you don't want to hear critics. [/quote] Let's stay cool and criticise basses not people or their opinions ":0) Best Edited October 18, 2014 by TheSiberian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Tastes change. I wonder how many Trombones, Clarinets and Saxes are sold these days in comparison to the 20's? And the bottom seems to have fallen right out of the Hurdy Gurdy market in the last 500 years. Sales are down and from the classifieds on BC and Talkbass people seem to be selling their "collections". So multiple ownership is decreasing. The relative cost of a Fender bass in the 60's was pretty close to the custom shop prices these days. Fender have been too good at reducing the cost of a bass and with it the magic that was being an owner. The last I read FMIC was in debt to the tune of about $250 million and their biggest single customer, Guitar Center, is also in financial trouble. An investment company owns about 50% of Fender and wants out but no one wants the stock so they couldn't float on the stock market. That only leaves the Chinese as the easy way out. But the thing that is really killing Fender is that, these days, the competition is just too good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='TheSiberian' timestamp='1413626125' post='2580242'] Let's stay cool and criticise basses not people or their opinions ":0) Best [/quote] I'm cool, but I disagreed with you, that's all ... and you disagreed with me ... which as far as I am concerned, you should feel totally free to do. I'm all for opinions being criticised; otherwise there's no point in saying anything at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote]Off topic, but the Hartke bass thing in your signature made me smile. I remember in the late 90's Hartke gave those basses to dealer if they ordered loads of amps. [/quote] Maybe so, but once I set it up well and sorted out the wiring problems the low end punch, especially in drop tuning, is so much clearer than, dare I say it, either of my Fenders. It is my "go-to" bass for Get Over It now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) - Edited February 28, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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