Fender, In trouble?

[merello]

In my life, I've had:[list]
[*]Genuine 70s P-bass I traded for a Steinberger copy because it was so poor sounding and woolly to pay.
[*]Fender American Strat (90s) that I sold as it was not great as a player or sounding.
[*]Fender American Telecaster (2004) that I sold as it was a poor sounding and average player.
[*]Fender Classic 50s Telecaster - very good player that I sold as I believed the crap about 'you need a flatter radius!.'
[*]Fender Classic Player Cabronita Thinline - best sounding and playing out of the lot.
[*]Squier P bass Special - sounded brilliant but was a bit of a mission to play
[/list]
I have also had a long term loan of a Hank Marvin CS stratocaster built to order. It was a good guitar but the nut cracked and it had a few wee repairable problems that were a nuisance.

Conclusion? If any young player asks me what to get I say...play as many as you can but if you don't have a lot of time buy a classic player second hand. Best value in the range.

IMO though, Fender have went nuts recently with models and I think there are far too many blurred lines.

Conclusion?

[3below]

As another alternative, build to order. Since it is all CNC manufactured I should, be able to order for example: a PJ jazz body, wood choice of own, maple neck, bound, dot markers, in my colour choice. There should be a reasonable number of options. This should be at USA prices, not custom. Car manufacturers, PC assemblers can do it. Just need to get consistent outstanding quality. There should not be 'good' ones and 'so so' ones.

Edited October 18, 2014 by 3below

[40hz]

The Fender range is faaaaaar too bloated and definitely needs to be simplified. It's quite frankly a mess. I don't agree with an earlier poster about the Mexican range. The Roadworns are widely regarded to be pretty much the best bang for buck Fenders you can get outside of the CS. And also as an another poster pointed out the post 2008-ish Mexico Standards are actually dramatically improved instruments. I can attest to this as my 2010 MIM jazz is hands down the one of the best Fenders I have played. Lightweight, impeccable finishing and construction and a classy sound. My best mates 2009 MIM stratocaster is also impressively constructed and finished.
I have to agree in saying it's actually the variance in quality of the higher priced Fenders that's damaging the brand! You can accept a few dogs at a lower price point, but at a higher one? no. You can see why people are going for Laklands et al. Fender will find a way, I hope. Love them or hate them, they are a massive part of our history and I want to see them thrive.

Edited October 18, 2014 by 40hz

[Bassman Sam]

Fender have always had their ups and downs over the years. I would be surprised if they went under but they really have to get the quality together and stop the neverending signature models. Just get back to the original ethos of Leo and produce quality instruments and sack the accountants.

[timmo]

I watched a video of Carol Kaye on youtube, and she was very uncomplimentary of Fenders in the 60`s and 70`s, so it appears that the poor build is not a relativley new phenomena amongst Fenders

Edited October 19, 2014 by timmo

[pfretrock]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1413703055' post='2580939']
I watched a video of Carol Kaye on youtube, and she was very uncomplimentary of Fenders in the 60`s and 70`s, so it appears that the poor build is not a relativley new phenomena amongst Fenders
[/quote]
In another interview (Haynes Fender Bass Manual) she said "the one I used in the mid 70s was the best one for quality".
Must have been really up and down.
She als said she did not like changing strings, so traded in her Fender bass every couple of years!

[Truckstop]

Over-priced and over-rated dogshit. The only reason anyone would ever buy one over another brand is purely because they want a Fender in their hands.

Even the US ones don't provide much over competing brands of a lower price point.

All the CEO has to do is keep Fenders in the public eye and the jobs done. No need to worry about actually making instruments that sound, look and play better than other brands.

People buy Cadillacs because they're cool cars. Not because they're better than BMW, Audi, Lexus or Mercedes. Nothing wrong with it of course; I'm just saying that these days in brand identity that gets the sales; not the product itself!

Truckstop

[neepheid]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1413710835' post='2580995']
Over-priced and over-rated dogshit.
[/quote]

Don't hold back, tell us what you really think!

[karlfer]

[quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1413710835' post='2580995']
Over-priced and over-rated dogshit. The only reason anyone would ever buy one over another brand is purely because they want a Fender in their hands.

Even the US ones don't provide much over competing brands of a lower price point.

All the CEO has to do is keep Fenders in the public eye and the jobs done. No need to worry about actually making instruments that sound, look and play better than other brands.

People buy Cadillacs because they're cool cars. Not because they're better than BMW, Audi, Lexus or Mercedes. Nothing wrong with it of course; I'm just saying that these days in brand identity that gets the sales; not the product itself!

Truckstop
[/quote]

All those millions of bass players duped

[tedmanzie]

USA Precision with a Jazz neck. Fender saved!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='tedmanzie' timestamp='1413715138' post='2581049']
USA Precision with a Jazz neck. Fender saved!
[/quote]

Or USA Jazz with a Precision neck. Saved twice.

[karlfer]

Or P body, P/J config, J neck. Hat trick

[oggiesnr]

Maybe as part of any restructuring they'll release the name and patterns for "Tacoma" so someone can restart building what was a brilliant but under rated series of acoustic instruments with some quirky but effective design features.

Steve

[stingrayPete1977]

I already made a suggestion that Genz-Benz could make an Shuttlemax 18.2, a hybrid of the 12.2 that use two 600watt classD amps but with the 900 watt power modules from the Shuttle/max 9.2, with all the features of the Shuttlemax 9.2 yet you could run 4 8ohm 4x10 cabs or a pair of big 4 ohm 2x12s etc, 1800 watts into 16 10" drivers with a clean and dirty channel what is not to like?! Lets get Jeff Genzler out and back into production again

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='timmo' timestamp='1413703055' post='2580939']
I watched a video of Carol Kaye on youtube, and she was very uncomplimentary of Fenders in the 60`s and 70`s, so it appears that the poor build is not a relativley new phenomena amongst Fenders[/quote]

I'm old enough to remember the bad reviews of both Gibson & Fender in the mid/late 70s, poor manufacture, orange peel finish & at a time when the Japanese direct copies were making their presence felt. IMHO it's what led to the diversity of brands competition now which Fender has never recovered from.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413721651' post='2581174']
I already made a suggestion that Genz-Benz could make an Shuttlemax 18.2, a hybrid of the 12.2 that use two 600watt classD amps but with the 900 watt power modules from the Shuttle/max 9.2, with all the features of the Shuttlemax 9.2 yet you could run 4 8ohm 4x10 cabs or a pair of big 4 ohm 2x12s etc, 1800 watts into 16 10" drivers with a clean and dirty channel what is not to like?! Lets get Jeff Genzler out and back into production again
[/quote]

No messing about; if you're going to do it, do it properly...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/iqC90Qi.jpg[/IMG]
[size=3][quote][/size][size=4]The Wall of Sound actually was eleven separate systems. Vocals, lead guitar, rhythm guitar, and piano each had their own channel and set of speakers. Phil Lesh's bass sent signals from each of the four strings to a separate channel and set of speakers for each string. Another channel amplified the bass drum, and two more channels carried the snares, tom-toms and cymbals. Because each speaker carried just one instrument or vocalist, the sound was exceptionally clear and free of distortion.[/size]
[size=3]The Wall of Sound consisted of 89 300-watt solid-state and three 350-watt vacuum McIntosh tube amplifiers generating a total of 26,400 watts of audio power through 586 JBL loudspeakers. The system projected high quality playback at 600 feet with an acceptable sound projected for a quarter mile, at which point wind interference degraded it. Four semi-trailers and 21 crew members were required to haul and set up the two 75-ton systems, one of which would go ahead to the next city on a tour while the other one was being used. The other would then "leapfrog" to the next show.[/size]

[size=3]The first Wall of Sound shows were in February 1973 and the last in October 1974 during the legendary closing week at Winterland memorialized in The Grateful Dead Movie.[/quote][/size]

[jezzaboy]

Hey Dad. That Wall of Sound nearly bankrupted the Dead and they had to go on hiatus for a year.

So, mabye not the best business model for Fender to go for [size=4] [/size]

But always good to see a mention for the Wall.

[stingrayPete1977]

And I bet some unprofessional 14 year old lad was still such an idiot to not take a spare wall of sound too, I'd not even lend him a plectrum just to teach him a lesson!

[hubrad]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413726622' post='2581242']
And I bet some unprofessional 14 year old lad was still such an idiot to not take a spare wall of sound too, I'd not even lend him a plectrum just to teach him a lesson!
[/quote]
Excellent.. the very concept of a SPARE Wall Of Sound! [size=4] [/size]

[Dad3353]

[quote name='hubrad' timestamp='1413727214' post='2581250']
Excellent.. the very concept of a SPARE Wall Of Sound!
[/quote]

Well, they did run [i]two [/i]of them, leap-frogging from venue to venue..!

[Lord Sausage]

The problem for Fender is simple. Fender Basses and guitars are not the best basses or guitars for metal!



(although joking, there is probably a hint of truth in there)

[Mornats]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1413732261' post='2581322']
[/quote]

They're not spikey enough. And if they were, the Squire spikes would be almost as spikey as the US Fender ones and then there'd be trouble.

[flyfisher]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413726622' post='2581242']
And I bet some unprofessional 14 year old lad was still such an idiot to not take a spare wall of sound too, I'd not even lend him a plectrum just to teach him a lesson!
[/quote]


Hat duly doffed!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Jus Lukin' timestamp='1413628172' post='2580263']
Or simply put, I don't think the general Fender buying market needs 80% of what the company is spending it's time and money on.
[/quote]

+1

The brands are all messed up.
The internet has changed how we relate to brands. Think of some smaller good makers - and we can find people who are passionate about their stuff and put it out there. Whatever the contention about Fodera pricing you have I've never heard anyone doubt that they believe in what they are doing.

Looking cheaper I think ACG's starting price is not far off half the ticket price of a USA fender.... a custom built UK bass is cheaper than a mass produced US Fender - regardless of which you prefer Alan believes in what he's doing and takes pride in it.

So what about Fender are they passionate about? What product over the last 3-4 years have they shown they are excited about? Apart from those wee mustang guitar amps that were quite good 1st amps I can't think of any. In the bass world Squier have had some good stuff, created a buzz and so on... but Fender? When was the last time Fender had a "have to own/try" bass or amp?
And shutting Genz Benz down was the most daft move ever - get a brand at the height of it's popularity with players, a range of great products and... shut them down...

[spinynorman]

I've never understood marketing based on where the product is made. The only sensible business strategy is to make it in the location that gives you the biggest profit. The myth that the US produces the best quality musical instruments was exploded in the 1970s by the Japanese, and the only way the myth can be maintained at all is by deliberately reducing the quality in non-US factories by using lower spec components and dropping quality control. And all that does is screw your brand. It might pander to xenophobia in certain parts of the US music fraternity, but I can't see why anyone in Europe would give a damn where their guitar is made.