JapanAxe Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1413614575' post='2580098'] Yep, I understand this. What I don't understand is when 'proper' musos tell me that the key of Ab is different to G#. [/quote] There is no key of G# (although there is a key of G#m). I'm sure that's cleared up the confusion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1413635054' post='2580369'] There is no key of G# (although there is a key of G#m). I'm sure that's cleared up the confusion! [/quote] Not strictly true. It's very rare, but the key of G# does exist. The key signature is written as 6 sharps and a double sharp on F. Like I say, it's very rare to see it (I've never had a chart written that way) but examples do exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Thanks for the info Doddy. Never thought of it from a writing perspective but that now makes complete sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1413623971' post='2580212'] That's the sort of thing I'm on about, saying it's in C would have been better! [/quote] You still have to be careful Cmajor is not Aminor. There are very subtle differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 19, 2014 Author Share Posted October 19, 2014 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1413722499' post='2581190'] You still have to be careful Cmajor is not Aminor. There are very subtle differences. [/quote] Well I will end up a lot closer playing C major over an A minor piece than I will playing A major over it, major minor clang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 The amount of times I got chord charts with the singer/guitarist saying "This one's in C", only to look at it & see that was the first chord. I was tempted many times to play in C, if only for the singer to find that the F makes their D a D minor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I like being a musical numptie - all these things I never need to worry about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 [quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1413744744' post='2581503'] I like being a musical numptie - all these things I never need to worry about [/quote] Yup.. Suits me too :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 On a tangent a lecturer i had at college used to play with Sonny Boy Williamson. They found out what key the tune was in by watching which pocket he pulled a harmonica out of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefrash Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 [quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1413743053' post='2581475'] The amount of times I got chord charts with the singer/guitarist saying "This one's in C", only to look at it & see that was the first chord. I was tempted many times to play in C, if only for the singer to find that the F makes their D a D minor. [/quote] Doing that though would make you the dick, not the singer/guitarist. As others have said, not all musicians have a grasp of (even basic) theory, it doent make them bad people (or bad musicians). If I'm ever in that situation i always take 'key' as being short hand for the first chord. I know its not right, and I know quite often its not theorically correct, but I just get on with having a bit of fun playing tunes in front of folk without going all muso on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I have no issue with people not knowing what they are doing as long as they are honest, "erm I'm not sure, I play C minor to start" would be fine, saying it is in C if you dont know what it means or the difference between maj or minor isnt helping anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Sausage Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 [quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1414000763' post='2584732'] Doing that though would make you the dick, not the singer/guitarist. As others have said, not all musicians have a grasp of (even basic) theory, it doent make them bad people (or bad musicians). If I'm ever in that situation i always take 'key' as being short hand for the first chord. I know its not right, and I know quite often its not theorically correct, but I just get on with having a bit of fun playing tunes in front of folk without going all muso on them. [/quote]Respect! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1414001058' post='2584740'] I have no issue with people not knowing what they are doing as long as they are honest, "erm I'm not sure, I play C minor to start" would be fine, saying it is in C if you dont know what it means or the difference between maj or minor isnt helping anyone. [/quote] This would be where I'd be coming from. Edited October 22, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 [quote name='lefrash' timestamp='1414000763' post='2584732'] Doing that though would make you the dick, not the singer/guitarist. As others have said, not all musicians have a grasp of (even basic) theory, it doent make them bad people (or bad musicians). If I'm ever in that situation i always take 'key' as being short hand for the first chord. I know its not right, and I know quite often its not theorically correct, but I just get on with having a bit of fun playing tunes in front of folk without going all muso on them. [/quote] I agree 100%. When someone says "We're playing xxxxx, it starts with a C", then that's perfectly acceptable. You know what the first chord is & can work out the scale from it. When they say "We're playing xxxxx, it's in the key of C" and didn't hand me a chart to show the chords, then it could easily go a bit awry. It never did though, as usually after the first few notes it was clearly not in C. Where I said I've considered it, I never have & wouldn't in front of an audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 I went to see a band a few years ago, bassist was a member here, he and the guitarist had fallen out with the guitarist/singer who was very talented but more of a learn it and repeat it player, every now and again they would give each other the wink and shift maj to min or the reverse. The guy just looked lost and sounded terrible as the others ploughed on in key together, cruel but brilliant, the audience didn't notice what was going on and I had even more fun in the second half after I pointed out in the interval that I knew what the game was and I 'conducted' a few semi tone shifts to them both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1414006029' post='2584831'] I went to see a band a few years ago, bassist was a member here, he and the guitarist had fallen out with the guitarist/singer who was very talented but more of a learn it and repeat it player, every now and again they would give each other the wink and shift maj to min or the reverse. The guy just looked lost and sounded terrible as the others ploughed on in key together, cruel but brilliant, the audience didn't notice what was going on and I had even more fun in the second half after I pointed out in the interval that I knew what the game was and I 'conducted' a few semi tone shifts to them both [/quote] What a downright horrid and vindictive thing to do. You're a bully. Edited October 22, 2014 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 Like most stories there was another side, but thats not my story or place to tell it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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