alhbass Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 As per the title. I'm wondering about the Sansamp BDDI in particular, as that's what I have - but throwing the question out there regarding Presence controls in general. I mean, I can hear the difference right enough when I adjust it, but just wanted to know what parameter is actually being altered by it, and what specifically is it intended to acheive? It more or less just seems like an additional treble control to me... Love to hear the BC wisdom, so please feel free to share your knowledge... Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I've always though of it as boosting the mid-range frequencies to help boost the vocals, or anything else in that area of the sonic spectrum. The exact range and amount of boost will no doubt vary greatly between different designs and manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Upper harmonics I'd imagine. Probably a HPF for most? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Wouldn't the upper harmonics be handled by the 'treble' control though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1413642368' post='2580468'] Wouldn't the upper harmonics be handled by the 'treble' control though? [/quote] To an extent, but my understanding of this, and I'm no expert, is that usually the Presence control won't be as interactive as a treble control is on the mids and lows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 (edited) A nice simple description can be found on wikipedia: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presence_(amplification)"]http://en.wikipedia...._(amplification)[/url] Edited October 18, 2014 by bartelby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhbass Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 Thank you for your contributions so far. But i must say i'm absolutely none the wiser. Can't make head or tail of the Wiki article, and everyone else seems to be as vague as I am... What is it meant to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Does this thread help any? http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1160761 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='alhbass' timestamp='1413645141' post='2580499'] What is it meant to do? [/quote] Depends what you mean by 'meant to do'. Electronically, it will affect the boost and cut (making louder or quieter) of various frequencies, the exact ones will depend on the precise circuit design but they will tend to be the ones in the 'middle', which could be quite a wide range but is basically the ones higher than the bass and lower than the treble. Audibly, it adds another control for the user to twiddle until they get the sound they like best, just like the bass and treble controls, which are not 'meant' to be adjusted to any particular settings as such, they are just a way of giving the user control over the sound according to their preferences. Very simplistically, if you like to hear more bass you turn up the bass control and if you like more 'zing' on the cymbals you increase the treble ( and vice versa of course). If you like to hear more of the singer or the solo instruments then you could turn up the 'presence' control. In practice it's just another control to play with until you get the sound you like best - no real rules as such, though some results will be more widely liked than others . . . But then that applies to music as a whole really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alhbass Posted October 18, 2014 Author Share Posted October 18, 2014 [quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1413647320' post='2580536'] Does this thread help any? [url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1160761"]http://www.thegearpa...d.php?t=1160761[/url] [/quote] Yes, more so than the others - thank you. So my impression has always been (with the Sans Amp BDDI anyway) that it's the very high frequencies that are effected (as some of these comments suggest) rather than the high mids. Still not clear about what the practical significance is of the treble being in the pre-amp and the Presence being in the power section though. Or precisely what a feedback loop is (in this context). Guess I need to do some more Googling.... Thanks to you all anyway. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subrob Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I've never had a bass device with a presence control, but on a guitar amp it is generally a super - treble. perhaps this becomes the high pass and the treble pot becomes a bandpass on such devices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandad Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) As I understand it, speech intelligibility is covered by approx' 400 - 3400Hz, the telephone bandwidth - so 'dial-a-disc' was always going to sound crap, (age showing). To give a singing voice clarity, particular frequencies are given a little emphasis. These are usually around 3 - 5 kHz. They identify a particular voice. So, Danny Hutton from 3 Dog Night sounds different to Tom Jones when singing the same words in 'Mamma Told Me Not To Come' because their vocal bits & pieces have different dimensions & they use them differently, (speech experts have strange names for how our vocal mechanics work). These frequencies help emphasise the nuances/distinctive character of the singers voice & "place" the vocal in front of or above the backing instruments. I think an engineer would do this with EQ & a presence control just picks out those frequencies without us having to know precisely which ones they are. This is only my understanding & I'm just a keen amateur so others may correct me. Edited October 29, 2014 by grandad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Obviously there's no power amp to consider in a BDDI, so the implementation of a presence control in the feedback loop of a power amp doesn't help in this case. As far as the audible effect is concerned, I've never used a BDDI but do have a BDI-21 - supposedly a copy of the BDDI - and its presence control does seem to operate on a higher frequency range than the treble control. Edited October 22, 2014 by dincz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 [quote name='alhbass' timestamp='1413645141' post='2580499'] Thank you for your contributions so far. But i must say i'm absolutely none the wiser. Can't make head or tail of the Wiki article, and everyone else seems to be as vague as I am... What is it meant to do? [/quote] All the Wikipedia page really says is that Presence is an upper-mid / high frequency boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 On the BDDI the presence works as a shelving treble control whilst also cutting the bass. http://www.talkbass.com/threads/semi-scientific-sansamp-bddi-analysis.394187/page-2#post-5129983 The images are long gone from that thread, but you can get the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigGuyAtTheBack Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Presence was described to me by a sound engineer as a 'sparkle' control! It enhances the very end of the audio high frequency spectrum IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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