Is an NS2 really worth the money?

[cetera]

1 minute ago, ubit said:

So no need to pay £4000 more then.

 

Not on his example, no as that isn't what it shows. It compares pretty much like for like.

A US made one would actually be more like £2.5k more too. Depends if you like top grade woods, hand finishing, Hazlab pre, custom-shop personal attention to detail, hard case etc etc. Same as any other brand with different products/price points.

I can hear a clear difference between my US made NS2 basses, my Far East-produced NS2A's and my Euro/Euro LX basses.

[Paulhauser]

6 hours ago, cetera said:

I can hear a clear difference between my US made NS2 basses, my Far East-produced NS2A's and my Euro/Euro LX basses.

Can't comment on the Korean ones but I have a couple of Euros and a few US NS-5's/6's and I do hear and feel the difference between them. 

My buckeye burl NS-5XL is simple the best bass I have ever had and I use that exclusively for recording since I got it. (Never take that out for gigs though)

With that said the newer Euros like my Euro 435 come really close to the US ones. But to be fair this is a solid white one with maple wings so no fancy wood to make a big visual difference. 

[TrevorG]

I've had a NS5XL for 20 years. They have more gravitas than the Euros, both in feel and sound but no - only time the price is worth it is when you're selling it.

[TheGreek]

On 13/05/2020 at 10:43, cetera said:

I can hear a clear difference between my US made NS2 basses, my Far East-produced NS2A's and my Euro/Euro LX basses.

I couldn't tell any significant difference between my Euro LX and my Korean NS2000 - guess which one I sold and which one I kept.

[BritBass 2]

I’ve only owned and played US Kramer NS 2 basses and definitely think it’s  worth keeping an eye out for one . Generally other players say the Kramer’s have slimmer , faster necks plus the Haz Lab/EMG combination gives you that classic tone . As for prices ,good clean condition examples will probably start at around £2500 to £3500/£4000 for very clean examples, not exactly cheap but still less than those from the Woodstock workshop.  There’s also speculation about the old 1980’s EMG pickups possessing different tonal qualities to those currently in production. 

[julfam]

Wait what’s the question? You want to know if the best bass ever built is worth the money!? Get one and you’ll see 😏

Edited May 18, 2020 by julfam

[ubit]

35 minutes ago, julfam said:

Wait what’s the question? You want to know if the best bass ever built is worth the money!? Get one and you’ll see 😏

Yeah right, if you read my original post, I priced an NS2 at £5000+ from Thomann. I asked if spending an EXTRA £4000 was worth it. I am not going to spend that on a bass mate

[julfam]

Haha just kidding anyway. Agree with the rest, they are insanely good, but 4000+ better? Probably not. Same way Foderas are probably not 8k better than ______ (please fill the blank with whatever decent bass you can get for 1-2k).

whats for sure is that, they are pretty serious stuffs! 
To me they are fully worth every penny, but that’s because I just never found anything I liked as much for less money.

Edited May 18, 2020 by julfam

[ubit]

I have absolutely no doubt that they are lovely basses but to be honest I just cannot justify spending that on a bass. £1500 was bad enough for the Euro. Round about £1000 is my expected spend on a really good bass and an American P or J would do that for me. I just like having a bass that offers different tonal choices. The Euro does this enough for me.

[julfam]

Well the only thing is... you seem to like your Euro LX a lot, and that’s great in theory. But I am not sure it really exists.

I mean... no picture no bass 😏

I think we all want to see it now

Edited May 18, 2020 by julfam

[ubit]

3 minutes ago, julfam said:

Well the only thing is... you seem to like your Euro LX a lot, and that’s great in theory. But I am not sure it really exists.

I mean... no picture no bass 😏

Ha ha, here ya go mate

 

[julfam]

Nice one mate!! Really like that finish. 👌

[ubit]

Just now, julfam said:

Nice one mate!! Really like that finish. 👌

This was my original question julfam. I mean the Euro is a lovely bass and sounds great. I know American made basses are always going to be more expensive and I should have edited my original post, its not £4000 more, more like £3,500 but that still a lot more money for I just don't know what. From what people say the NS2 has a better bottom end but this thing has loads of bottom and miles of top end. With new strings it sounds incredible.

[julfam]

Yeah the Euros are great, and the value for money is one of the best. In the end it’s probably the same debate as Fender US vs Custom shop.

Edited May 18, 2020 by julfam

[4000]

Something to bear in mind is that whatever makes one bass “better” than another (even amongst similar models) might not be to your taste. Or there might be other factors; I once played one of the water-cured redwood NS 5 strings; it was nice enough, but it weighed a ton, far heavier than my old Euro. That would have been a deal breaker for me straight away. 
 

 

[bakerster135]

I used to have a black Kramer-era NS2 about 15 years ago, which had the Haz preamp and EMGs and sounded amazing - absolutely cracking bass which I severely regret selling, but I was young and stupid and needed rent money...

I also had a 2001 all-maple Euro NS4 CRFM, with the Aguilar OBP-1 preamp and EMGs (sold to Aero71 of this forum, and which I also throughly regret selling...). 

Despite there being a few years between ownership, I have to say that the Euro felt and sounded, acoustically, VERY similar to the Kramer NS2. If anything, the Euro was possibly a bit more lively acoustically.

I only really noticed a difference when I listened to recordings of the each bass - the bottom end was very close, but the Euro had a very clean, sweet and glassy top end, whereas the Kramer had this lovely growly, grindy top end which cut right through the guitarists' full-gain Marshall JCMs! This video, though not the greatest playing-wise, demonstrates that tone pretty well.

I really believe that HAZ preamp is a big part of that US NS2 sound and that one of those inserted into a 90s/00s Euro bass would get you there for a lot less money, provided you can source one of course! 

[Misdee]

I suppose whether it is worth the extra money depends on what premium you place on having the real thing.

If you just want a tool to use the Euro will probably do a very satisfactory job for you. If, however, you  have always wanted to own and play a nice example of the iconic American bass guitar brand that is Spector then only the USA- made bass will do.  And there is nothing wrong with that point of view, however irrational it may seem to some, . I love Spector basses , wish I owned one,  but I wouldn't want a Euro version , no matter how good they are. 

[4000]

57 minutes ago, bakerster135 said:

I used to have a black Kramer-era NS2 about 15 years ago, which had the Haz preamp and EMGs and sounded amazing - absolutely cracking bass which I severely regret selling, but I was young and stupid and needed rent money...

I also had a 2001 all-maple Euro NS4 CRFM, with the Aguilar OBP-1 preamp and EMGs (sold to Aero71 of this forum, and which I also throughly regret selling...). 

Despite there being a few years between ownership, I have to say that the Euro felt and sounded, acoustically, VERY similar to the Kramer NS2. If anything, the Euro was possibly a bit more lively acoustically.

I only really noticed a difference when I listened to recordings of the each bass - the bottom end was very close, but the Euro had a very clean, sweet and glassy top end, whereas the Kramer had this lovely growly, grindy top end which cut right through the guitarists' full-gain Marshall JCMs! This video, though not the greatest playing-wise, demonstrates that tone pretty well.

I really believe that HAZ preamp is a big part of that US NS2 sound and that one of those inserted into a 90s/00s Euro bass would get you there for a lot less money, provided you can source one of course! 

IMO differences between individual basses can account for some of these things. I’ve owned something like 20 Rics, and every single one has sounded different. I’m sure if you played 20 US Spectors they wouldn’t all sound the same, even with the same preamp, pickups and woods.  Which of course isn’t to say that those won’t factor into the sound.

Edited May 25, 2020 by 4000

[ubit]

And here we can hear the range on a Euro Spector. These basses have a great sound and I still cannot see where you can justify £3000 more for an American one unless you have money to burn.

 

 

[Lozz196]

That is one very full-on sounding bass.

[Paulhauser]

2 hours ago, Misdee said:

I suppose whether it is worth the extra money depends on what premium you place on having the real thing.

If you just want a tool to use the Euro will probably do a very satisfactory job for you. If, however, you  have always wanted to own and play a nice example of the iconic American bass guitar brand that is Spector then only the USA- made bass will do.  And there is nothing wrong with that point of view, however irrational it may seem to some, . I love Spector basses , wish I owned one,  but I wouldn't want a Euro version , no matter how good they are. 

I have to agree except for the 'real thing' part.  I hold Euros in very high regard, I have 4 Spectors from the Czach factory and they are some of the best basses I have ever had. This is why I have them and use them almost daily along with my US made ones. They are from different eras, different models and while I see your point that they are not made in Woodstock for me they are as real Spectors as one can get. 

However, I am glad that I own 2 of the only 450-ish pcs of NS-5XL's that were produced in the Woodstock era by Stuart Spector. Also own a Forte/NS-6XL pre-Korg. Might be irrational for some but not for me, there is more to it than just the sound or the price. Call it the result of clever marketing or hero worshipping or such but after many years of longing I was able to get these instruments and I am super happy with them. For me any of them worth the extra money I have spent on them over a Euro model. For full disclosure I have bought them used but the same goes my Euros, too 🙂

 

[funkypenguin]

1 hour ago, ubit said:

And here we can hear the range on a Euro Spector. These basses have a great sound and I still cannot see where you can justify £3000 more for an American one unless you have money to burn.

 

 

I feel like you'll never hear the difference between the basses after the audio has been compressed to hell uploading to YouTube. The only way you can make proper judgement on any basses sound IMO is to play one for yourself and then decide either way. I had the chance to play a euro 4 and an NS-5XL back to back and I thought the HAZ preamp was a big step up in sound quality from the tonepump fitted to the Euro. I think you've more or less answered your own question on whether a new NS-2 is worth it a few posts back when you felt you couldn't justify spending more than £1500 on any bass.

[ubit]

10 hours ago, funkypenguin said:

 I think you've more or less answered your own question on whether a new NS-2 is worth it a few posts back when you felt you couldn't justify spending more than £1500 on any bass.

Which was my original question. What makes an American NS2 so much better that you can justify paying thousands more? So you think a Haz pre-amp and a paint job is worth that? They must be good right enough.

[Al Krow]

There have been some excellent responses on this thread which I think have dealt with the question, and the debate is indeed as @julfam said:

On 18/05/2020 at 18:52, julfam said:

Yeah the Euros are great, and the value for money is one of the best. In the end it’s probably the same debate as Fender US vs Custom shop.

You gotta remember though, a fundamental point about what something is "worth" is not what it can do or deliver but what price a willing buyer and willing seller agree on.

You could spend £2M on a "used" classic car or alternatively £30,000 to get an excellent new car. Is the classic car "worth" £1,970,000 more? Well clearly to many folk in that market, it is!

Is a premier league footballer "worth" 10,000 times more than an ITU nurse?

[ubit]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Is a premier league footballer "worth" 10,000 times more than an ITU nurse?

Definitely not!