50s 60s 70s 80s Second hand bass prices

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1414416263' post='2589029']
[u]This is how I see it in my head...[/u]

Noone would buy a car thats 50 years old and pay double/triple what it was worth new because of the fact that as things get old they break.
[/quote]
Really? I'd have a think again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2094303/Rare-Ford-Escort-sold-3-000-1968-fetches-65-000-today-thanks-painstaking-restoration-work.html

[stingrayPete1977]

Everyone has different ideas about what is expensive and too valuable to gig anyway.

[BigRedX]

I have owned a fair few basses and guitars from the 60s 70s and 80s. Nearly all were bought when they were simply second hand instruments with little value attributed to them because they were old.

Some I sold on, others I have kept. There is IMO nothing special about those I kept as regards their age. I choose to keep them because they serve a musical purpose for me. There are some other old basses and guitars that I would like to own, but I would only buy an old one if there was a no equivalent currently being made. If there was I would rather have something new.

Edited October 28, 2014 by BigRedX

[Skol303]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1414416263' post='2589029']
Often I will see a bass dated from the above times for sale and people will be asking for thousands for them and people will pay it. To me I find it very confusing why someone would want to pay such a ridiculous price for something thats over 30/40/50 years old!
[/quote]

What you’re describing is the peculiarity of the antiques market. Old stuff has value partly because its age can’t be re-created overnight.

Sure, you can build replica basses, furniture, cars, whatever, using the same materials and methods as used in the past - essentially you can create the same products today, and often better products.

But you can’t make them old. Only time can do that. And that - together with the rare artisan quality of [i]some[/i] antique items (sadly not basses!) - is what people are prepared to pay money for. That and mojo

[Chiliwailer]

This old corker of a debate!

Such a trivial one this, and subject to personal opinion and experience. I've owned more than a handful of pre CBS Fenders, and having starting working in vintage guitar shops aged 15, then having another 16 years working in them I've played hundreds, and have formed an opinion that is purely mine, not gospel.

I've played good, teriible and outstanding vintage basses. In comparison, I've played good, terrible and outstanding Custom Shop Basses, USA series basses and custom makers too (currently loving Mike Lull's work). I sold my Pre CBS collection to buy a flat, I now have a Custom Shop collection. A good Custom Shop and a good pre CBS bass will differ, but neither is better, each has its own strengths and weaknesses. I would favour a pre CBS for feel and vibe, but a Custom Shop for value. Tone wise, they are both excellent in different ways. And they can't be directly judged because a pre CBS pickup has had years of demagnetising. I've put modern pickups into a pre CBS bass and it changed massively.

My logic... A good bass is a good bass regardless of period. I've played too many bad vintage basses to think that they are all magic. But, I love the vintage vibe and if I could, I would own pre CBS Fenders again just for the joy of owning history, it have to be a good one though!

[Telebass]

Good post. Also has to be remembered that some of the oldies in good nick are in that condition because the original owners and beyond found that weren't actually that good...the best ones got gigged into the ground! I had a '68 Jazz that looked fabulous, but was an utter dog. And a '69 Telecaster Bass that looked an utter dog, but was fabulous!
Every bit as much a lottery as buying a new bass. Certainly not remotely worth it JUST because of what they are. If they are good, fine. If not, then they are very collectable firewood, or good only for vintage spares.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Telebass

[gary mac]

This discussion could and probably will go on for a good while yet, almost certainly no conclusion will be drawn and the OP will still have the same opinion.


I would just like to add, that today I have been playing my 66 P and yet again just opening the case made me feel happy. It also felt and sounded (to me) very lovely.












Also I have been playing my 2013 Dingwall P bass and that was every bit as enjoyable.








I'm sure my post has been of no use whatsoever

[Weststarx]

[quote name='gary mac' timestamp='1414507967' post='2589988']
This discussion could and probably will go on for a good while yet, almost certainly no conclusion will be drawn and the OP will still have the same opinion.

[/quote]

Yes I agree to no conclusion will be drawn but it has altered my perception.

From what I've read from the others is that a bass from a certain time period could mean something personal to them, whether they buy it because:

1.) They had a similar one back in the day that they regretted selling
2.) Having their own little piece of history in their hands
3.) Investments etc
4.) Just because it just played amazingly.

I guess everyone has different reasons and tastes or money than sense!

It also has reminded me of the Fender Stratocaster 60th Anniversary event I went to at PMT in Birmingham. The chap explained there about the methods and ways the strat was produced in the early days and that no guitar was the same as most were hand finished etc etc. So from that point of view of having something thats also one of kind I can see why people would find appealing.

Its been really interesting hearing the various opinions!

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Paultrader' timestamp='1414485866' post='2589629']
I adore my 76 Fender P because I bought it in 1980 and it has been my constant companion for just about 35 years. I stopped taking it to gigs for a time because I thought I didn't want it to get any more damaged, or nicked - but then I asked myself who it's actually for - what's the point of keeping it in the cupboard? It sounds gorgeous, plays like a dream and feels like part of me.

When I bought it, it cost a fair chunk of my income, but it's monetary value now is only of any significance if it stays in the cupboard. These old instruments are wonderful, but they should be played, not mothballed. In the classical world, instruments of much greater age and greater frailty are being gigged constantly.

And if the house catches fire...
[/quote]

This is the way I look at my `78 - I have it cos of its great sound and playability. Sure recorded it sounds great, but keeping it just for that is a waste. It`s an old heavy Fender, it will outlive me/humanity/cockroaches, and survive the nuclear bomb, and all that before breakfast......

[discreet]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1414524213' post='2590275']
...survive the nuclear bomb...
[/quote]

Oh, the humanity! And cockroaches.

[Owen]

We project what we want onto all sorts of things. Instruments, partners, cars, houses, TVs etc etc etc.

If people have the £ for them then all power to them. If not, in a room with thrashing guitars and banging drums, the difference will not be apparent anyway.

However, this pales into insignificance when you looks at what classical musos are shelling out and playing. [url="http://www.beares.com/online-sales/violins/"]http://www.beares.co...-sales/violins/[/url] no prices? It would make you cry if you knew.

[discreet]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1414532852' post='2590438']
We project what we want onto all sorts of things. Instruments, partners, cars, houses, TVs etc etc etc.
[/quote]

Hence the power of advertising and the rise of consumer capitalism.
Having said that, I know for sure that my new Spector will increase the size of my testicles.

[Telebass]

About the manufacturing differences. They are not really that great. Each body and neck is still hand finished to some degree. It's not an operation that CAN be entirely automated, or not easily enough to make it worthwhile.

[uk_lefty]

I recently played a 1977 left handed Fender P in a shop... it was not inspiring. The neck looked brand new and felt amazing, the body looked pretty cr@p really and turned me off a bit, the pickup was slowly decaying and weak sounding... I just couldn't get the classic P-Bass tone out of it that I have in my head. For £1,500 I'd rather buy a great bass and have change... if that's vintage and it holds its value then it's something to pass down to the children.

Edited October 28, 2014 by uk_lefty

[Owen]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1414533001' post='2590441']
Hence the power of advertising and the rise of consumer capitalism.
Having said that, I know for sure that my new Spector will increase the size of my testicles.
[/quote]

An excuse for new trousers then

[discreet]

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1414533975' post='2590476']
An excuse for new trousers then
[/quote]

Yes, and probably a huge tube of Savlon, too.
The ball-size increase will be due to the current mrs discreet thwacking me in the scrotum with my new Spector.

[stingrayPete1977]

It could have been worse if you'd bought one of those kiss basses then! Lob.

[stingrayPete1977]

Will anything other than four string fender basses and normal guitars be collectable in the long term anyway? In another fifty years will anyone be playing these instruments? Even the oldest P bass is fairly modern in real terms, are we caught in a moment of typical rock and roll bands, a death doom fudge glimmer lounge core band is still more closely set up like a 60s rock and roll band than it is an orchestra. Collectors that can't play a note do and will buy vintage fenders but I can't see anyone caring so much for a Wal unless it's to a bass player,move on forty years from now and I can see most basses other than fender and Gibson starting to lose value.

I'm sure there well be a generation of bassists around then but there will be a lot of used basses, supply and demand controls prices so from millions of Yamaha basses no one has a clue as to which is cheap and which is an expensive one and a dwindling market for them for example against a 1951 P Bass in a glass display case, I know where my investment would go even though I'd rather gig a five string Nathan east for the rest of my days than the P bass.

Edited October 29, 2014 by stingrayPete1977

[discreet]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1414576196' post='2590778']
It could have been worse if you'd bought one of those kiss basses then!
[/quote]

Yes... I would have had an axe in me chopper... or something.

[Norris]

Back in the 80s you could hardly give away any old Fender that wasn't pre-CBS. All the 'modern' 70s instruments were regarded as second rate. Now they are worth so much (regardless of actual playing quality) it's a brave person that will actually gig a 70s Fender.

I don't really own old guitars. My oldest instrument is my Aria Pro II SB-1000 - a keeper for sentimental reasons. Everything else I own was made within the last 10 or 15 years.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1414576740' post='2590787']
Will anything other than four string fender basses and normal guitars be collectable in the long term anyway? In another fifty years will anyone be playing these instruments? Even the oldest P bass is fairly modern in real terms, are we caught in a moment of typical rock and roll bands, a death doom fudge glimmer lounge core band is still more closely set up like a 60s rock and roll band than it is an orchestra. Collectors that can't play a note do and will buy vintage fenders but I can't see anyone caring so much for a Wal unless it's to a bass player,move on forty years from now and I can see most basses other than fender and Gibson starting to lose value.

I'm sure there well be a generation of bassists around then but there will be a lot of used basses, supply and demand controls prices so from millions of Yamaha basses no one has a clue as to which is cheap and which is an expensive one and a dwindling market for them for example against a 1951 P Bass in a glass display case, I know where my investment would go even though I'd rather gig a five string Nathan east for the rest of my days than the P bass.
[/quote]

I think this is a really valid point, and something I've been saying for a while. People attach emotion to instruments, in the same way they do cars (Maybe a bloke thing?). I recall new collectors in the late 90's, were looking for Steinbergers, and Jaydee MK's, because when they started playing in the 80's, thats what they wanted, because that was what was being played, then when a little older, and maybe have more spare cash, thats what they were going for. These days, the fashions are back to more classic instruments, like Ricks and Fenders, which have always managed to transcend fashion, because they have always been played throughout those era's. Instruments that are particularly attached to an era, tend to be less collectible long term. There simply isnt huge interest in Steinbergers and the like. They will have their niche following, much like Jaydee, but thats it.
Ricks have an obvious appeal, but you rarely see, or here people talk about a vintage Rick having mojo, looking cooler than a new one, being nicely aged, feeling like it plays itself, or whatever, so the appeal of a vintage Rick doesnt seem to be there in comparison, as the new ones are probably as good, which people may prefer, so it keeps the price down on older ones. A good 70's Rick can be bought for £1500-£2000, the same price now for the last 7 or 8 years. Jaydee MK's or Supernaturals, have been around the £900-£1200 mark for 10 years.
Gibson are not exactly known for making great basses. A 60's EB2 for example, could be bought for between £1800 and £2500 for the last 15 years, they have barely moved, as they arent very versatile,a nd are quite fragile even. I've bought them before because i love the look of them, but they are very limited, so i've always moved them on. People often buy them because of that 60's visual vibe, and the emotional attachemnt can draw them in. Hofner violin's, again, were very sought after in the 80's, loads around, fetching some serious money, now they are back around the £1000 mark for a decent mid 60's example, the same price they were 20 years ago, which allowing for inflation, is considerable depreciaition. Apart from a banjo tuner '59 EB2, or an early 60's Thunderbird (If you can find one without a neck repair), vintage Gibosn basses have barely increaed in value in recent years, like the Ricks or Jaydee's.

I think Fender will always appeal vintage wise, because they are so different to the new reissues. They havent managed to make a new one, that sounds or feels as good as a 'good' older one. And most people have, at some point, seen one of their favourite bass players play one, so there is more chance of the emotional connection, because more people have played them, and good ones are very, very good. Simple.

They arent all good though. The same as not all 70's ones are bad. Not at all. If you find a good one though, you'll know about it!

This is just my opinion, based on my experiences, but Fenders have, and more than likely will, continue to be good investment stock, if thats your motivation for buying one. If you want one for how it feels and sounds, then a good one will tick all your boxes....and some.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1414673206' post='2592062']
Back in the 80s you could hardly give away any old Fender that wasn't pre-CBS. All the 'modern' 70s instruments were regarded as second rate. Now they are worth so much (regardless of actual playing quality) it's a brave person that will actually gig a 70s Fender.
[/quote]

I gig mine. I`d like to say I was brave as well.

[Romeo2]

Excellent discussion, some great points made, thank you gents.

I can't say I've had a lot of experience with vintage, full of mojo basses but because I now own two brand new G&Ls Tributes I too, like the OP, often wonder why people react to the very old and dirty stuff that they see (not hear or feel) with comments like 'ooh that's sexy, and what a bargain!' or 'I bet that sounds killer!' Some of what you said made me understand these reactions a little better but knowing how much amazing quality bass you get from basses manufactured in Asia it still leaves me a little confused what all the fuss is about.

What I know for certain though is that these reactions definitely do [i]not[/i] decrease my GAS for a P

[Norris]

[quote name='Romeo2' timestamp='1414680113' post='2592180']
...but knowing how much amazing quality bass you get from basses manufactured in Asia...
[/quote]
Back in the 70s and a lot of the 80s the stuff coming out of the far east was pretty cheap and ropey. These days it's a whole new ball game. They are producing high quality guitars and very reasonably priced.

[pmjos]

This year I bought an 86 Warwick thumb 6. It was a very early number and immaculate. It weighs a tonne but it plays like an angel. I paid a fraction of what it cost when it was new and a fraction of what a new one would cost today. It is an inspiring bass. I didn't buy it because it was old but because it was good. I would be VERY surprised if in 20 years these early Warwicks were no considered as sought after as old Ricks or Fenders are now.Its invest I an old Warwick time methinks.