Venues, Let's Talk About Small Bars and Clubs

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1414504712' post='2589924']
I wonder if that's because they no longer get into the habit of going to live gigs? The decline of record sales and the rise in concert ticket prices might be a big factor in this.
[/quote]

I think it's a little bit of that... also several venues I've played should really just give up on the live music. Played The Finsbury a few weeks back up at manor park and it was a huge pub litrally heaving with 20 somethings, hundreds of them. Decent stage, decent sound but when the music started a partition wall was drawn across from the stage area and the rest of the pub... not to keep the noise out of the music area but to keep the music out of the main pub... the kids simply didn't want the music, they had come out for a chat with their mates.

[blue]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1414485028' post='2589618']
Does this mean that you also have an older girlfriend, or have we been separated by a common language?


[/quote]

Hmmmmm, Yeah, unfortunately that's what's going on. I hope to get it down to one younger girlfriend real soon. Just haven't figured out a safe way to deliver the bad news.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1414507104' post='2589978']
I think it's a little bit of that... also several venues I've played should really just give up on the live music. Played The Finsbury a few weeks back up at manor park and it was a huge pub litrally heaving with 20 somethings, hundreds of them. Decent stage, decent sound but when the music started a partition wall was drawn across from the stage area and the rest of the pub... not to keep the noise out of the music area but to keep the music out of the main pub... the kids simply didn't want the music, they had come out for a chat with their mates.
[/quote]

Played a place with a similar configuration. The bar was in a separate room divided by sliding garage doors. The bar was packed and the room we were in was empty. Geeeeez, have things changed.

And it has nothing to do with how good you are, if it's live rock music the 20 somethings want nothing to do with it.

Blue

[blue]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1414506632' post='2589968']
I'm sure you're well aware of the cultural differences either side of the pond. Especially with regards to drinking and going out culture.[/quote]

I think were on the same page. The young pretty folks don't want any contact with rock bands especially bands with 6O year old guys.

It's a good thing our band leader and front person and lead guitarist is a 29 year old female. I think it's the only thing that saves us and keeps the band working.

Blue

Edited October 28, 2014 by blue

[flyfisher]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1414507104' post='2589978']
I think it's a little bit of that... also several venues I've played should really just give up on the live music. Played The Finsbury a few weeks back up at manor park and it was a huge pub litrally heaving with 20 somethings, hundreds of them. Decent stage, decent sound but when the music started a partition wall was drawn across from the stage area and the rest of the pub... not to keep the noise out of the music area but to keep the music out of the main pub... the kids simply didn't want the music, they had come out for a chat with their mates.
[/quote]

That's amazing - not sure to laugh of cry about that one! How dispiriting for the bands concerned.

I've never heard of anything like that before and it evokes memories of a teenage me playing a new record to my musically disinterested parents and getting a 'yes, very nice, now please turn it down' response

[JamesBass]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1414518306' post='2590180']


I think were on the same page. The young pretty folks don't want any contact with rock bands especially bands with 6O year old guys. It's a good thing our band leader and front person and lead guitarist is a 29 year old female. I think it's the only thing that saves us and keeps the band working.

Blue
[/quote]
I don't think its necessarily the bands, many of them do modern chart covers, and it's not just rock stylings many bands round here do funk and soul.

The venues are a huge issue for me, while they're doing fairly well among their dedicated regulars, who can afford more for a pint, they are gonna one day loose this loyal base, who come out regardless of which band are there that week. Venues here need to be more student friendly but their hands are tied as far as the brewery are concerned.

[blue]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1414518356' post='2590181']
That's amazing - not sure to laugh of cry about that one! How dispiriting for the bands concerned.I've never heard of anything like that before [/quote]

It happens every weekend to many if not all of the gigging bar level live rock bands that encounter the 20 somethings. They are not interested.. Were selling and they ain't buying.

Blue

Edited October 28, 2014 by blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1414518018' post='2590174']
Played a place with a similar configuration. The bar was in a separate room divided by sliding garage doors. The bar was packed and the room we were in was empty. Geeeeez, have things changed.

And it has nothing to do with how good you are, if it's live rock music the 20 somethings want nothing to do with it.

Blue
[/quote]

We do a local festival every year and the age is around 25 or so... and it is rammed for us. That makes a change from our regular
through the year turn-out which is much older.
We also do 25th yr birthdays..altho not as many as 60ths..
I think the younger crowd will certainly go to good live music events but it is so much more based around alcohol and a great night and they
are also just as likely to go to their night clubs. They wont turn out for run of the mill gigs through out the year, but for a special event they will...
and they spend a lot of money. IME

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1414569699' post='2590672']

I think the younger crowd will certainly go to good live music events but it is so much more based around alcohol and a great night and they
are also just as likely to go to their night clubs.[/quote]

They might go for whatever [i]"good live music"[/i] is, but not for live 70s blues/rock, not on this side of the pond.

Blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1414603694' post='2591242']
They might go for whatever [i]"good live music"[/i] is, but not for live 70s blues/rock, not on this side of the pond.

Blue
[/quote]

Nope..they wouldn't go for that over here either.... It will get you into a few bar gigs but it wont get you out of them.
Younger crowds want a bit more modern stuff. Gtr music would start around the 90's indie bands if you want 20 something
crowds. And I agree you probably don't, mostly, but if you want to sell an event with around 1000 plus heads... which is going to
have to cater for 20's 30's 40's and 50's age group you have to have an appealing across the board show for them.

Younger kids aren't going to flock to an 80's band ...even less so a 70's band.
They'll put up with the Stones and Stevie Wonder but will be more intune with The Killers..

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1414605281' post='2591267']
Nope..they wouldn't go for that over here either.... It will get you into a few bar gigs but it wont get you out of them.
Younger crowds want a bit more modern stuff. Gtr music would start around the 90's indie bands if you want 20 something
crowds. And I agree you probably don't, mostly, but if you want to sell an event with around 1000 plus heads... which is going to
have to cater for 20's 30's 40's and 50's age group you have to have an appealing across the board show for them.

Younger kids aren't going to flock to an 80's band ...even less so a 70's band.
They'll put up with the Stones and Stevie Wonder but will be more intune with The Killers..
[/quote]

Here is our local guitar hero, the 20 somethings wouldn't have a clue or interests. And the most of the folks around here my age that appreciate the genre are to old and lazy to go out. If Im not gigging I'm still out there pstroning local bands and looking to turned on. No different then when I was 17 and I have no plans on stopping.

I don't think Greg has much interest in doing bar gigs locally anymore. I don't blame him.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3dfVPWZOCE"]https://www.youtube....h?v=e3dfVPWZOCE[/url]

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrVWYFHg6N8"]https://www.youtube....h?v=XrVWYFHg6N8[/url]

Blue

Edited October 29, 2014 by blue

[JTUK]

Neither would I blame him..but presumably he had to do them for some reason.
As I said on another thread, quality is no garaunteed seller in itself as there is no accounting
for other people likes or dislikes.. or just plain their version of 'good'

It is a puzzle... and one we had to evaluate which didn't please me..but then neither did
playing to half empty gigs....or worse..!!

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1414609266' post='2591351']
Neither would I blame him..but presumably he had to do them for some reason.[/quote]

A lot of these guys have been playing Milwaukee area bars for years and it's really getting to the point where guys that play at Greg's level are just saying, [i]"screw it, enough is enough" [/i]

I think those YouTube clips are from some clubs in Germany and I think it's different over there. By the way, Greg did open for your Robin Trower here in Milwaukee 2 weeks ago.

Blue

Edited October 29, 2014 by blue

[JTUK]

But to be fair, playing in bars will do them no good at all with that sort of set.
As good as he is, you wouldn't go and see him every few months so he is best out of it.
Whether that means he has enough work/income for his needs is another thing but
sometimes you can overplay an area. I have no idea how big your city is but we can't sell
a show and play there again with 6 weeks of each gig...and we also have to offer something
different they haven't seen or don't see often. Anything to make the gig different/special and sell.
Sometimes it is just enough to get a horn section and two girl BV's...
But also, selling 350 tickets is a big pressure for a band like us..and really hard work...and stress.
We ask for a band to play with us and can offer them about £400 for 60-70 mins work
but they need to be able to chip in with selling about 100 tickets...
We don't get many takers... it is a tough sell, IME.

But the thread is good... I like to get a feel for what works in what context, gig-wise but it can be a minefield
and ..er.... perplexing..!!

[bassist_lewis]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1414445863' post='2589440']


I'm curious, what would those classics be?

blue
[/quote]

Re your previous comment,I'm thought this was a discussion about pub gigs in general.

No surprises: Sweet home Alabama, alright now (occasionally), brown eyed girl, mustang sally, a little respect, Roxanne, Billie Jean, superstition, I feel good. Not all classic Blues/Rock and not exactly expanding musical minds but they work 90% of the time.

[blue]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1414617830' post='2591526']
Re your previous comment,I'm thought this was a discussion about pub gigs in general.

I went off topic. Sorry

No surprises: Sweet home Alabama, alright now (occasionally), brown eyed girl, mustang sally, a little respect, Roxanne, Billie Jean, superstition, I feel good. Not all classic Blues/Rock and not exactly expanding musical minds but they work 90% of the time.
[/quote]


I guess , but those tunes seem like a stretch for 20 somethings.

Funny story, I was at a big club with a big agency 80's hair band playing 80s stuff.The place was full of 20 somethings and the band was good for what they do. Thing is none of the kids would get on the dance floor, only once for [i]Sweet Home Alabama[/i]. lol

blue

Edited October 29, 2014 by blue

[JTUK]

[quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1414617830' post='2591526']
Re your previous comment,I'm thought this was a discussion about pub gigs in general.

No surprises: Sweet home Alabama, alright now (occasionally), brown eyed girl, mustang sally, a little respect, Roxanne, Billie Jean, superstition, I feel good. Not all classic Blues/Rock and not exactly expanding musical minds but they work 90% of the time.
[/quote]

I'd be very surprised if that set of tunes captured a 20 something crowd, tbh.
I'd say it would work on a much older crowd..unfortunately ... but you'd empty the bar pretty quick
if they were 20 somethings. Certainly round here. And I am not so sure it would be such a great set for
a 40's crowd... altho that would also depend on the band doing them.

Edited October 29, 2014 by JTUK

[Weststarx]

I think the simple factor is that there is not really any bands that are in the charts these days so your 20 somethings arent going to have grown up listening to rock bands etc because nowadays they just dont exist in the charts.

The other thing to consider is if you go into a pub full of 20 somethings and play 60s blues and rock they wont be interested because its the wrong type of audience. Same way if a band of 20 somethings played chart music to a pub filled with bikers.

I'm 21 myself and play in a pub covers band - its great fun and we try to mix it up to cater for all age groups with music from people like Chuck Berry to Katy Perry - though the crowds in Cambridgeshire pubs are mostly filled with a middle aged audience. It does make me fear that we just wont see live bands anymore and I will lose what I love doing because kids my age just arent interested. The music they listen to doesnt and mostly CANT get played by bands because its all over produced dance beats.

[lojo]

I met the old owner of the Half Moon the other night and discussed this subject, its pretty much dead, at least here in the SW corner of the M25

There seems to be a bit of a scene in Sussex, an band I used to play with are booked up with gigs over that way as they say its worth it.

I went to see a band locally in a Music venue last weekend, pub with room/stage round back, there was no one there, and as someone said, even if people aren't there for the particular band, there was no one in the pub either on a saturday night.

Edited October 30, 2014 by lojo

[Len_derby]

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1414674135' post='2592085']
, there was no one in the pub either on a saturday night.
[/quote]

As a working business model, it looks like the old-style British pub is dead in the water.
However, as musicians we don't have to let it drag us down with it.
In my experience there are more opportunities to play live than there has ever been.
For example private party gigs seem to have greatly increased in the last few years. I've done a few 'unplugged' gigs in suburban back gardens for birthdays and family celebrations. That sort of thing has really grown.
I don't think communal music is going to end anytime soon. It's just increasingly going to happen at different places in different ways. We adapt.

[blue]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1414672187' post='2592039']
I think the simple factor is that there is not really any bands that are in the charts these days so your 20 somethings arent going to have grown up listening to rock bands etc because nowadays they just dont exist in the charts.

The other thing to consider is if you go into a pub full of 20 somethings and play 60s blues and rock they wont be interested because its the wrong type of audience. Same way if a band of 20 somethings played chart music to a pub filled with bikers.

I'm 21 myself and play in a pub covers band - its great fun and we try to mix it up to cater for all age groups with music from people like Chuck Berry to Katy Perry - though the crowds in Cambridgeshire pubs are mostly filled with a middle aged audience. It does make me fear that we just wont see live bands anymore and I will lose what I love doing because kids my age just arent interested. The music they listen to doesnt and mostly CANT get played by bands because its all over produced dance beats.
[/quote]

Good point, the fact that top 40 went [i]"bye bye"[/i] years ago really hurt us For us over 60 guys, you might remember when everyone knew what the number 1,2 and 3 songs were on the charts. Now everything is segmented, kids will say, i only listen to this or that.

My generation, we listened to everything, you had to. I mean The Beatles were charting but so was Frank Sinatra.

blue

[JTUK]

Maybe the kids see the fast track talent shows where people get TV time and an audience without never ever having to
put some real time in... I think Leona Lewis was a classic case in point in that she had never really performed in from of people.
..and so went from nothing to a very high level of the game?? Kids get the impression that is all that is needed... 15mins of TV and
you're there... whereas most had to learn to play an instrument and then work up thru the gigs..
An instant type of gratification seems to be expected.
Of course, you have always had non talents, but it is harder to pull that off in the Dog and Duck... you have to have a few balls to sing
to a cold audience who might be totally disinterested from the start and never get beyond that...?? Paying your dues..??

They may not even be in it for the love of it... they just want 15mins on TV...

I pretty recently met someone who did all her singing to a mirror...as it turns out she really has a voice; the type that gets people's ear
straight away, but if she wasn't working with people who had educated her and brought her on, she'd still know nothing.
She may well do a major talent show..as she HAS talent but she never even thought about learning to play..

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1414706783' post='2592609']
Maybe the kids see the fast track talent shows where people get TV time and an audience without never ever having to
put some real time in... [/quote]

I think a lot of the kids on those talent shows were already pros before they were contestants. Many have already been on international tours and have had recording contracts, but they don't disclose those things.

Blue

[JTUK]

Maybe... but there are others that aren't... Susan Boyle and Leona Lewis, for example, were VERY green before they went on, iirc...
So, in that sense, the rags to riches story is relevant, IMO.

[seashell]

Well I had another fine night at the Tower of Song last night, jamming with the old rock n rollers. But also a few youngsters, including a 17 yr old guitarist. He's really good and more than holds his own with the older guys. He travels from Northampton to Brum to attend these jams. Apparently there's nothing like it in his area.
I'm so lucky it's right on my doorstep.