onehappybunny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 As the title says... I'm interested in people's experiences about what compact cabs work well with valve amps. Not really looking at ampeg 8 x 10 stacks here ... more like schroeder and the like (say no bigger than 4 x 10) Thanks folks Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Hey Stu, you doing all right? I was thinking Schroeder, probably the 410, like WaterofTynes - it isn't as big as your usual 410 due to two of the 10s being aligned toward the side. That's what I'd go for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 A good cab is a good cab, irrespective of the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 What about that whole Epifani thing a couple months back? I'm not 100% if this is right, but people said they weren't really designed to be used with valve amps, or something like that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='Welshbassist' post='253738' date='Aug 3 2008, 02:52 PM']What about that whole Epifani thing a couple months back? I'm not 100% if this is right, but people said they weren't really designed to be used with valve amps, or something like that![/quote] I initially raised the subject with Epifani and received the following: [quote name=''Epifani'']The damping factor is usually very low in most tube amps; this causes the speakers to move with less control which could result in damage to the cones. The companies that produce tube amps design their cabinets for use with tube amps, we would have to stiffen the cones which would drastically alter our sound. If you use it be careful.[/quote] I responded with: [quote name=''obbm'']I can understand what you are saying however is this a problem specific to Neo-speakers? For example does the same apply to my NYC cabinet? Also do you use custom-made speakers or regular OEM designs (Eminence/B&C)?[/quote] And their answer was: [quote name=''Epifani'']To answer your question about the speakers they are always custom made to our specs, that’s why they sound different. In order to use them with tubes they would have to be made differently. Tube amps generally have a different sound fat and round but not necessarily as responsive. The NYC cabs were not made for tubes either[/quote] I believe they have subsequently issued a statement about this which is on their web site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 So, unless I'm mistaken, it's a bad move to use Epi's with valve heads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Looks like it - a surprise to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 As a result of a number of enquiries on the subject they posted this in their support Q&A section. [quote]Q: I have heard that using a tube power amp can damage Epifani drivers - is that true? A: \"Apparently there was some confusion regarding my generalized statement on the use of tube power amps and speakers. Let me clear this up once and for all. Basically, a speaker cone can break up in two ways as the wave forms emanate off the speaker - Axially and Conically. As the wave form moves out along the cone of the driver the wave can broken by the subtle twisting of the cone itself. That is referred to as “Conical Break-up mode”. “Axial Break Up mode” happens when the cone stops moving like a piston and begins to flex axially from the voice coil to the top of the cone. Due to the low damping factor of most tube power amplifiers, there is less control over the driver than with most modern solid state or digital amps. Less control means a greater excursion of the driver and more opportunities for the driver to break up either Axially or Conically. The net result of that effect manifests itself in the overall wear and tear of the driver. The lifespan of the driver will be shorter - how much shorter depends on how rigorously the speaker is used. So what does this mean to a working bass player? Basically if you run any rig within some common sense parameters it will work fine for years. Use and abuse a rig and it will get damaged. We strongly suggest that you experiment with our products and anyone else\'s in pursuit of \"your\" tone. Our cabinets work fine with tube power amps and we have a history of players who love these cabinets and use them in conjunction with their tube power amps.[/quote] I think the key word is moderation. I'm going to run my 1x12s with the Orange head for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshbassist Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 So if it's okay, what was the point of the whole incredibly long BS explanation then? That just made things too complicated and hard to understand. I love my Epi UL, but they just went a little crazy there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Back to the first law of Alex again: [b]You can use any power ouput amp with any power handling cab. If any of these combinations makes bad sounds then turn down and/or stop cranking the bass EQ excessively or damage may occur[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 Plus one for Ferret's incantation of the Law of Alex. I have an EBS 2x12 Neo which is a perfect match for my Burman Pro 4000, and I believe that CK has also ended up with the same combination. It's the same size as a 4x10, though if you went for 2 single 12s it would probably be slightly narrower but taller overall. I'd heard this story about damping and emailed the guys at EBS in Sweden to ask their opinion. I got a very swift reply from the technical director who said that there were no problems and his cabs could be used with any amp, no problem. The only stigma is having an amp that weighs 6Kg more than the cab. If you can get past that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehappybunny Posted August 3, 2008 Author Share Posted August 3, 2008 thanks guys - the reason for the question was that I had heard the Epi comment in the past and assumed that some cabs 'like' valves and some don't. I've heard that Acme's in particular are well suited to valves but was just looking for bit guidance rather than pot luck I'm thinking schro... either 1212L or 410L (probably can't afford the latter.... or the former ) Chris - doing well thanks. In new band and recording demo next weekend. Only problem is gas (hence the post!). Hope that Epi is doing well for you Cheers Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted August 3, 2008 Share Posted August 3, 2008 [quote name='Welshbassist' post='253794' date='Aug 3 2008, 12:11 PM']So if it's okay, what was the point of the whole incredibly long BS explanation then? That just made things too complicated and hard to understand. I love my Epi UL, but they just went a little crazy there.[/quote]What it came down to is that they were trying to make it seem that if one wanted the best result from their cabs, which sell well, one needed to use one their amps, which don't. They got called out on it and tried to retract their statement without admitting that it was a load of BS to begin with. The resulting 'clarification' contained even more BS than the original statement. The incident left a very sour taste, rightfully so IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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