PayPal Problems

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1415610432' post='2601842']
I've never used paypal for years. Don't agree with their fees, their terms & I don't trust them, especially in instances where if the buyer claims its a fake, they refund the buyer & the buyer destroys/keeps the item (even if their claim is false). Leaving the seller out of pocket.
I'd rather use WUMT!
[/quote]

Their fees alone are pretty crazy. Something like 30p per transaction + 3.4% of the final sale, plus a monthly subscription.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1415642666' post='2602315']
Their fees alone are pretty crazy. Something like 30p per transaction + 3.4% of the final sale, plus a monthly subscription.
[/quote]
They're neqrly as greedy as the government!

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1415642905' post='2602319']
They're neqrly as greedy as the government!
[/quote]

It is fairly greedy, and certainly the worst I've seen so far. But that's the price you can command when you have corned a big chunk of the market.

[White Cloud]

I avoid paypal at all costs for obvious reasons.....

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1415646250' post='2602375']
I avoid paypal at all costs for obvious reasons.....
[/quote]
....and there are obvious reasons at times to use it.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415648702' post='2602410']

....and there are obvious reasons at times to use it.
[/quote]
In most cases it seems only to favour the buyer.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1415659554' post='2602543']
In most cases it seems only to favour the buyer.
[/quote]
As i said there are obvious times to use it.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415659926' post='2602553']

As i said there are obvious times to use it.
[/quote]
Good point. But if everyone chose not to use to sell & only to buy, then you wouldn't be able to use it.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1415660330' post='2602564']
Good point. But if everyone chose not to use to sell & only to buy, then you wouldn't be able to use it.
[/quote]
Sellers use it because it enables a lot of people to buy their goods who couldn't do do otherwise. Like it or not it's a convenient way to pay for items. It has its downside fees being one and yes it does side with the buyer. I've come off second best once or twice as a seller but as a buyer the protection it has given me has more than paid for that.

[Dad3353]

[size=4]Just for balance, and from a very unbalanced viewpoint... I've been using Paypal as a buyer for many years, and have never once had any problems whatsoever. It is by far the most useful method of payment for me, both for private buys or from businesses. No complaints here. I have never sold anything, and so can't judge that aspect.[/size]

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1415668462' post='2602626']
Just for balance, and from a very unbalanced viewpoint... I've been using Paypal as a buyer for many years, and have never once had any problems whatsoever. It is by far the most useful method of payment for me, both for private buys or from businesses. No complaints here. I have never sold anything, and so can't judge that aspect.
[/quote]

I was of the same viewpoint until a few months ago, when I encountered the same problem as Ash where a refund from a seller was deliberately delayed by PayPal. I knew the service wasn't perfect, but that just soured the whole thing a bit for me.

Of course there are good things about it - it's incredibly easy, as a customer or buyer, to send payments or set up direct debits. It's very safe (as opposed to other methods, which often involve handing over lots of sensitive information to unknown individuals). I get why it's used, and I still use it myself.

But they have a reputation for [i]always[/i] siding with the buyer. Their fees (which are always passed on to the seller) for payment gateways are ridiculous.

It has to be said - as a business, the [i]only[/i] case to be made for PayPal is that customers prefer to use it, and that affects sales.

[Dad3353]

I'm no expert, and I've not studied in depth the historical aspect, but I do remember there being some resistance to payment by card in the first years. Some, especially small businesses, found the cost per payment too high, and so didn't accept cards. Others would only accept above a minimum sales amount. I don't know about the UK, but in France, it's now very rare to not accept cards; even street market sellers often have them. One can buy a [i]baguette[/i] with a card. The girl that delivers our weekly groceries has one, it connects like a mobile 'phone. All this to say that, despite some initial reticence, and despite its downsides, once these things become ubiquitous, one has to accept them or be excluded. Not that that's always a Bad Thing, of course, but it's a choice, that's all.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1415670440' post='2602630']
I'm no expert, and I've not studied in depth the historical aspect, but I do remember there being some resistance to payment by card in the first years. Some, especially small businesses, found the cost per payment too high, and so didn't accept cards. Others would only accept above a minimum sales amount. I don't know about the UK, but in France, it's now very rare to not accept cards; even street market sellers often have them. One can buy a [i]baguette[/i] with a card. The girl that delivers our weekly groceries has one, it connects like a mobile 'phone. All this to say that, despite some initial reticence, and despite its downsides, once these things become ubiquitous, one has to accept them or be excluded. Not that that's always a Bad Thing, of course, but it's a choice, that's all.
[/quote]

I've not personally found card payments to be so widespread. Most of my money is still withdrawn from the account at the cash machine, and spent here-and-there. Most places that I've encountered still have a minimum transaction (usually £5, sometimes £10), and if all I want is a tasty baguette, I either need the physical cash, or buy nearly £5 more. Although I do wish the liberal use of card was a thing here. We have a card machine in the shop, but most people still pay by cash. Small-town life, maybe?

Having said that - PayPal have tried to break into the in-store card-payment market over the last few years. I don't know how successful they've been with that, but I've never encountered one of their machines. Possibly, again, because their fees are too steep.

As you say, though - PayPal is approaching ubiquity in the online payment market.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1415671217' post='2602632']...
...Small-town life, maybe?...
...
[/quote]



Do you know where I live..? It's not Megopolis..! I never have hard money on me, neither notes nor coins; [i]all[/i], without exception, is paid by card. I've not had a cheque book for decades, and would have to try hard to remember how to fill one out. I really can't remember the last time I had to draw out notes from the cash point, either, and [i]that [/i]might have been in the UK. It could also be yet another symptom of advancing years, though..!
I reckon Paypal is here to stay; if not under that name, then under another.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1415679321' post='2602635']


Do you know where I live..? It's not Megopolis..! I never have hard money on me, neither notes nor coins; [i]all[/i], without exception, is paid by card. I've not had a cheque book for decades, and would have to try hard to remember how to fill one out. I really can't remember the last time I had to draw out notes from the cash point, either, and [i]that [/i]might have been in the UK. It could also be yet another symptom of advancing years, though..!
I reckon Paypal is here to stay; if not under that name, then under another.
[/quote]

There are plenty of other companies offering the same services as PayPal already. If things keep moving along as they do now, it would be hard to deny that the future is electronic money. In fact, it already is - that's how banks and loads of businesses have been dealing for years. It's just us, the humble customer (possibly just in NI?), that has yet to make the move.

No - I've never disputed the popularity or validity of electronic money. All the more reason why we should use a reputable service. Let's not forget that PayPal isn't a bank, and handles our money without the same regulation as the banks.

[Beedster]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415661775' post='2602575']
Sellers use it because it enables a lot of people to buy their goods who couldn't do do otherwise. Like it or not it's a convenient way to pay for items. It has its downside fees being one and yes it does side with the buyer. I've come off second best once or twice as a seller but as a buyer the protection it has given me has more than paid for that.
[/quote]

I think that's the truth of it.

Furthermore it's a selling tool, and part of the psychology of it being a sellers tool is that by protecting the buyer it encourages more buyers to use it. Therefore, and perhaps counter-intuitively, by being buyer friendly - and therefore increasing the confidence of buyers in using the service - it's also a more effective seller's tool (more buyers = more sales). So it's actually a win-win. The only downside is that Paypal makes it very easy to buy stuff I shouldn't be buying - seriously, where would BC be without Paypal

We can rant about individual scenarios, but like so many other things we rant about, we're better off with them than without.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Beedster

[MiltyG565]

The thing is that sellers only pay for their buyers to use PayPal because it's what they want to use in a lot of cases. If PayPal didn't always side with the buyer, it would be throwing business out the window. Because no matter what, the seller is going to use PayPal for the buyer's sake, so it's the buyer that's the important part of the transaction, because if they're happy, sellers don't have much choice in the matter.

[Beedster]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1415697953' post='2602704']
The thing is that sellers only pay for their buyers to use PayPal because it's what they want to use in a lot of cases. If PayPal didn't always side with the buyer, it would be throwing business out the window. Because no matter what, the seller is going to use PayPal for the buyer's sake, so it's the buyer that's the important part of the transaction, because if they're happy, sellers don't have much choice in the matter.
[/quote]

It's called business! Same with credit cards, and probably at some point in the past, hard cash

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1415698712' post='2602711']
It's called business!
[/quote]

I understand that.

Can't see how there would be a monopoly with physical cash though?

[Beedster]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1415704140' post='2602776']
Can't see how there would be a monopoly with physical cash though?
[/quote]

The move from the barter economy to cash probably turned banks/governments into the most effective/successful monopolies possible

[karlfer]

Bought a bass off Gumtree last Friday night, paid by PAINPal.
Went to collect on Sat as agreed, he emailed when I was driving down (2.5 hours) that he won't be in. My wife told me 3 hours later.
I get there, nobody in except a fragile, deaf octogenarian? lady who came to the window. Don't really know even now if it's his address.
I backed off in seconds as I could see I was frightening her.
The phone number he gave me went to ansaphone for a local Sunday league club.

I then had to go home on the way to that night's gig to pick up a spare bass. Another hour out of my way.

On the Sunday he mailed in reply to the mail I sent on Saturday night, after a wasted journey of pushing 5 hours, plus an hour there trying to find him.
He said he would post it on Tuesday.
Last I heard from him, last Sunday.
No bass, no real way of forcing contact.
Gone to raise a dispute with PAINPal.
CAN'T DISPUTE THIS TRANSACTION AS IT IS JUST A PAYMENT ACCORDING TO THEM, NOT A f***ing ITEM BOUGHT
So, for the second time in 5 years I'm about to get f***ed for over £600 and PAINPal are washing their hands of it, despite a £23
charge plus the £650 for the bass, plus £30 out of pocket for fuel.
I can't even TRY to get it back via credit card for 30 days. That will be a barrel of laughs no doubt.
And people insist on f***ing PAINPal.
NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416516867' post='2611143'] Bought a bass off Gumtree last Friday night, paid by PAINPal. Went to collect on Sat as agreed, he emailed when I was driving down (2.5 hours) that he won't be in. My wife told me 3 hours later. I get there, nobody in except a fragile, deaf octogenarian? lady who came to the window. Don't really know even now if it's his address. I backed off in seconds as I could see I was frightening her. The phone number he gave me went to ansaphone for a local Sunday league club. I then had to go home on the way to that night's gig to pick up a spare bass. Another hour out of my way. On the Sunday he mailed in reply to the mail I sent on Saturday night, after a wasted journey of pushing 5 hours, plus an hour there trying to find him. He said he would post it on Tuesday. Last I heard from him, last Sunday. No bass, no real way of forcing contact. Gone to raise a dispute with PAINPal. CAN'T DISPUTE THIS TRANSACTION AS IT IS JUST A PAYMENT ACCORDING TO THEM, NOT A f***ing ITEM BOUGHT So, for the second time in 5 years I'm about to get f***ed for over £600 and PAINPal are washing their hands of it, despite a £23 charge plus the £650 for the bass, plus £30 out of pocket for fuel. I can't even TRY to get it back via credit card for 30 days. That will be a barrel of laughs no doubt. And people insist on f***ing PAINPal. NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN [/quote]
Surely this is more to do with the seller rather than paypal. Why was there a £23 charge to you?

Edited November 20, 2014 by BetaFunk

[discreet]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1415670440' post='2602630']
...once these things become ubiquitous, one has to accept them or be excluded. Not that that's always a Bad Thing, of course, but it's a choice, that's all.
[/quote]

If you have to accept these things or be excluded, it's not a choice.

Edited November 20, 2014 by discreet

[Kev]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416516867' post='2611143']
Bought a bass off Gumtree last Friday night, paid by PAINPal.
Went to collect on Sat as agreed, he emailed when I was driving down (2.5 hours) that he won't be in. My wife told me 3 hours later.
I get there, nobody in except a fragile, deaf octogenarian? lady who came to the window. Don't really know even now if it's his address.
I backed off in seconds as I could see I was frightening her.
The phone number he gave me went to ansaphone for a local Sunday league club.

I then had to go home on the way to that night's gig to pick up a spare bass. Another hour out of my way.

On the Sunday he mailed in reply to the mail I sent on Saturday night, after a wasted journey of pushing 5 hours, plus an hour there trying to find him.
He said he would post it on Tuesday.
Last I heard from him, last Sunday.
No bass, no real way of forcing contact.
Gone to raise a dispute with PAINPal.
CAN'T DISPUTE THIS TRANSACTION AS IT IS JUST A PAYMENT ACCORDING TO THEM, NOT A f***ing ITEM BOUGHT
So, for the second time in 5 years I'm about to get f***ed for over £600 and PAINPal are washing their hands of it, despite a £23
charge plus the £650 for the bass, plus £30 out of pocket for fuel.
I can't even TRY to get it back via credit card for 30 days. That will be a barrel of laughs no doubt.
And people insist on f***ing PAINPal.
NEVER NEVER NEVER AGAIN
[/quote]
You sent it as a goods payment, but you got charged? I don't understand this.

If you sent the money as a payment for goods, you as the buyer would never be charged. You are charged for using a debit or credit card gift payment, but I assume you didn't do this.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1416521431' post='2611217']
If you have to accept these things or be excluded, it's not a choice.
[/quote]

No..? OK, let's put it another way. Pest or cholera..? The choice is yours.