PayPal Problems

[ambient]

I bought something off eBay last year, before I had a Paypal account, the guy never sent the item, Paypal didn't want to know because I'd paid as a guest.

My bank, Nattiest refunded me with 48 hours.

[karlfer]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1416521066' post='2611213']
Surely this is more to do with the seller rather than paypal. Why was there a £23 charge to you?
[/quote]

I have no idea. He requested payment by Paypal for the bass. I set up a new Paypal account. He provided an email address to pay to. I followed Paypals instruction and paid my Paypal via my credit card.
As I paid by Paypal and they say they offer protection, it is more to do with them. Otherwise I would not have bought the bass.

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1416521573' post='2611222']
You sent it as a goods payment, but you got charged? I don't understand this.

If you sent the money as a payment for goods, you as the buyer would never be charged. You are charged for using a debit or credit card gift payment, but I assume you didn't do this.
[/quote]

When I set this Paypal up on the night, it was set up so my credit card would be used to pay the Paypal bill.
I have little issue with them charging me as long as it offers protection.
It appears it doesn't.

Late last night I got am email, from the same email address as the seller.
The person stated he was the son of the seller and that the seller had died on Tuesday night.
The person stated he would get round to sorting out "loose ends" in a week or two.

Edited November 21, 2014 by karlfer

[chaypup]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416551809' post='2611332']
I have no idea. He requested payment by Paypal for the bass. I set up a new Paypal account. He provided an email address to pay to. I followed Paypals instruction and paid my Paypal via my credit card.
As I paid by Paypal and they say they offer protection, it is more to do with them. Otherwise I would not have bought the bass.



When I set this Paypal up on the night, it was set up so my credit card would be used to pay the Paypal bill.
I have little issue with them charging me as long as it offers protection.
It appears it doesn't.

Late last night I got am email, from the same email address as the seller.
The person stated he was the son of the seller and that the seller had died on Tuesday night.
The person stated he would get round to sorting out "loose ends" in a week or two.
[/quote]

This has SCAM all over it in massive red letters. Luckily it was via your credit card, you should be able to get it back as it was over £100.
Got a link to the original listing at all?

[karlfer]

[quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1416563035' post='2611416']
This has SCAM all over it in massive red letters. Luckily it was via your credit card, you should be able to get it back as it was over £100.
Got a link to the original listing at all?
[/quote]

Nope, it was removed within half hour of the PayPal payment being made.
I have looked at the credit card thing and it keeps coming up with "merchant" which it was not, it was a private individual.
I will try it with Paypal as the "merchant".
Credit card site says;
1. Must leave it until 30 days after transaction
2. They will report their findings back with 21 days of claim being received.
So, about another 7 weeks before I get to know one way or another.

5 years ago I lost a bass and £600 to Italy courtesy of Paypal and I vowed never again, but last week 2 basses I was interested in were both Paypal only.
DEFINITELY never again, sell them to somebody else.

[Geek99]

[quote name='ash' timestamp='1414765821' post='2593104']
I don't think it's gone to my bank account as it was a partial refund and I paid from my PayPal balance. I haven't used the account subsequently because I prefer to use PayPal as a 'float' so I don't use my bank account directly - that's because I've never really trusted them!
Still trying to find a working phone number for them too - like many modern companies they pontificate about customer service and transparent working practices but remain as opaque as a pint of Guinness and as user friendly as an iPad with no screen.
[/quote]
I found an 0800 number on saynoto0870.com and they answered pretty quickly

[mcnach]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416563666' post='2611423']
5 years ago I lost a bass and £600 to Italy courtesy of Paypal and I vowed never again, but last week 2 basses I was interested in were both Paypal only.
DEFINITELY never again, sell them to somebody else.
[/quote]

Hmmm, if I'm collecting in person and someone says "no, pay by paypal first"...

[discreet]

I've nothing personal against Italy and its inhabitants, but back in the day when I did a bit of eBay trading I found very quickly that anything I sent to Italy went missing as a matter of course and [i]any [/i]kind of transaction inevitably turned to crap. So Italy went on my exceptions list along with most African countries, Lithuania etc. and the other usual suspects.

I'm not suggesting that the Italian postal system is corrupt or anything, but... well OK, yes I am.

Edited November 21, 2014 by discreet

[ambient]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416563666' post='2611423']
Nope, it was removed within half hour of the PayPal payment being made.
I have looked at the credit card thing and it keeps coming up with "merchant" which it was not, it was a private individual.
I will try it with Paypal as the "merchant".
Credit card site says;
1. Must leave it until 30 days after transaction
2. They will report their findings back with 21 days of claim being received.
So, about another 7 weeks before I get to know one way or another.

5 years ago I lost a bass and £600 to Italy courtesy of Paypal and I vowed never again, but last week 2 basses I was interested in were both Paypal only.
DEFINITELY never again, sell them to somebody else.
[/quote]

Maybe get on the phone to your credit card people and say you think your card has been used without your knowledge, you've just noticed a Paypal payment go out that wasn't yours ?

Lying I know, but sometimes you have no choice.

[ash]

The payment came through last Friday after I made a complaint to customer service. I received a call from them initially blaming the sellers account - once again he very patiently rang them stating it had left his account on the day he had made the refund. I again emailed them copying his email to them and the summary of my previous conversation. I then received an email apologising for a 'known technical issue' and the PayPal rep who rang me sent me a further apology. The money came through shortly after. On the 17th November! I asked what had happened to any interest on this and got no reply, they initially denied their phones were down but admitted that at times they have had 'technical issues' with the free phone number at busy times. The PayPal rep was courteous throughout but notably defensive until the mistake was uncovered and then genuinely apologetic for the inconvenience and way both myself and the seller were treated. A long haul but I finally got my partial refund.

[karlfer]

In true Karl " if I can cock it up, I will, twice" style, early last night, I had fired off a polite but obviously questioning rant as to why Paypal wouldn't accept this dispute.

Not long after that, I received the email from the sellers son, saying his dad had passed away suddenly on Tuesday..

This morning I got an email from Paypal saying they had opened up my claim .

Now I know I'm a soft sh*te and if this lad genuinely did lose his father suddenly on Tuesday, he really is going to be upset with Paypal giving him a hard time.

I shouldn't be let out really.

Edited November 21, 2014 by karlfer

[discreet]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416570224' post='2611512']
Now I know I'm a soft sh*te and if this lad genuinely did lose his father suddenly on Tuesday, he really is going to be upset with Paypal giving him a hard time. I shouldn't be let out really.
[/quote]

Don't keep beating yourself up. Just beat yourself up once, then move on.
There's no way you can possibly know if the situation is kosher or not. I don't think you've been unreasonable under the circumstances.

[ambient]

Maybe me being cynical and suspicious/totally untrusting of people , but the son's checking his dad's emails ? Strikes me as being a bit odd.

Personally I would leave things, and leave the Paypal dispute in place.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416570224' post='2611512']
In true Karl " if I can cock it up, I will, twice" style, early last night, I had fired off a polite but obviously questioning rant as to why Paypal wouldn't accept this dispute.

Not long after that, I received the email from the sellers son, saying his dad had passed away suddenly on Tuesday..

This morning I got an email from Paypal saying they had opened up my claim .

Now I know I'm a soft sh*te and if this lad genuinely did lose his father suddenly on Tuesday, he really is going to be upset with Paypal giving him a hard time.

I shouldn't be let out really.
[/quote]

That still doesn't explain why the house where this man lives had only a frightened old lady in it, who, from what you've said so far, hadn't informed her family that there was a stranger lurking about the house, and also why the number you were given was wrong.

You see, those things still leave a massive question mark over the entire transaction, for me. And it's not below a con artist to play on our innate human emotions. There's obviously no way to tell if that is the son of the seller, or even if the seller has died. Maybe I'm just overly-cynical? But what was his excuse for not being in on Saturday? What was his reason for leaving it until Tuesday to post? Why didn't the phone number work? Who was the old lady in the house?

There are far too many questions over this for me to take it at face value, and if I were you, Karl, I'd push on with the dispute. Even if it is all above board, it's still your money. You need to protect your interests too. Send the family a bouquet of flowers if you're feeling bad about it.

[karlfer]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1416579879' post='2611649']
That still doesn't explain why the house where this man lives had only a frightened old lady in it, who, from what you've said so far, hadn't informed her family that there was a stranger lurking about the house, and also why the number you were given was wrong.

You see, those things still leave a massive question mark over the entire transaction, for me. And it's not below a con artist to play on our innate human emotions. There's obviously no way to tell if that is the son of the seller, or even if the seller has died. Maybe I'm just overly-cynical? But what was his excuse for not being in on Saturday? What was his reason for leaving it until Tuesday to post? Why didn't the phone number work? Who was the old lady in the house?

There are far too many questions over this for me to take it at face value, and if I were you, Karl, I'd push on with the dispute. Even if it is all above board, it's still your money. You need to protect your interests too. Send the family a bouquet of flowers if you're feeling bad about it.
[/quote]

Not being in on Saturday. He was apparently in Blackpool, had a turn, doctor told him not to drive.
Leaving it until Tuesday. Dunno, none given.
Phone number was for a Sunday league he allegedly runs (I didn't try it until I'd seen the old lady).
The old lady apparently was his mother in law, who, unbeknownst to him had been discharged, on her own, from hospital that morning. Bit of research last night shows the property to be a ONE bed council bungalow. I knew it was small but...............

Send flowers? I might if I knew who the Hell lived where?

Edited November 21, 2014 by karlfer

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416580444' post='2611651']
Not being in on Saturday. He was apparently in Blackpool, had a turn, doctor told him not to drive.
Leaving it until Tuesday. Dunno, none given.
Phone number was for a Sunday league he allegedly runs (I didn't try it until I'd seen the old lady).
The old lady apparently was his mother in law, who, unbeknownst to him had been discharged, on her own, from hospital that morning. Bit of research last night shows the property to be a ONE bed council bungalow. I knew it was small but...............

Send flowers? I might if I knew who the Hell lived where?
[/quote]

Why would he give you the number of a sunday league club instead of his mobile phone or home number? Even if he does run the Sunday league club, unless he's there more than he's at home (and I doubt it), then it's kind of odd to give that out instead of mobile or landline number.

Mother-in-law who was discharged on her own? And then she just let herself into her daughter's/son-in-laws house? Still sounds a bit odd (especially since you also now know it's a 1-bed house). When I was in hospital, they wouldn't even discharge a 20 year old unless there was somebody there to pick them up. I doubt hospitals are waving bye-bye to frail, deaf 80 year olds, and not even telling the family.

Sorry, but it all still sounds very suspicious to me.

[karlfer]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1416581401' post='2611666']
Why would he give you the number of a sunday league club instead of his mobile phone or home number? Even if he does run the Sunday league club, unless he's there more than he's at home (and I doubt it), then it's kind of odd to give that out instead of mobile or landline number.

Mother-in-law who was discharged on her own? And then she just let herself into her daughter's/son-in-laws house? Still sounds a bit odd (especially since you also now know it's a 1-bed house). When I was in hospital, they wouldn't even discharge a 20 year old unless there was somebody there to pick them up. I doubt hospitals are waving bye-bye to frail, deaf 80 year olds, and not even telling the family.

Sorry, but it all still sounds very suspicious to me.
[/quote]

Yup, I'm starting to get that impression

The point to me though is PAINPal. They give you all this "use us we protect you" and, well, shock horror, not always it would seem.
Ultimately after going through Paypals procedures, then credit card company procedures, if no result, I will go to the fraud squad, even if they do tell me it's a civil matter.
Jeez, it should just be so easy

[Dad3353]

[attachment=176875:Sher_Holm_Peng.png]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1416581401' post='2611666']
Why would he give you the number of a sunday league club instead of his mobile phone or home number? Even if he does run the Sunday league club, unless he's there more than he's at home (and I doubt it), then it's kind of odd to give that out instead of mobile or landline number.

Mother-in-law who was discharged on her own? And then she just let herself into her daughter's/son-in-laws house? Still sounds a bit odd (especially since you also now know it's a 1-bed house). When I was in hospital, they wouldn't even discharge a 20 year old unless there was somebody there to pick them up. I doubt hospitals are waving bye-bye to frail, deaf 80 year olds, and not even telling the family.

Sorry, but it all still sounds very suspicious to me.
[/quote]

[size=5][b]EGAD!![/b][/size]

Though I do agree entirely, more holes in that story than in Blackburn, Lancashire!

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1416582338' post='2611677']
Yup, I'm starting to get that impression

The point to me though is PAINPal. They give you all this "use us we protect you" and, well, shock horror, not always it would seem.
Ultimately after going through Paypals procedures, then credit card company procedures, if no result, I will go to the fraud squad, even if they do tell me it's a civil matter.
Jeez, it should just be so easy
[/quote]

No, they don't offer protection for all transactions. There's also no regulation which means they have to offer protection. It's simply a marketing tool. These are the things one should know about before using the service.

Luckily for you, you paid on your credit card, so you've still got protection It might be an idea to get in touch with the police about this now, rather than later, as it does seem thoroughly dodgy.

Douglas, Stu, I haven't told you about my sideline, have I?

I'm Sherlock Holmes in a local production of Sherlock Holmes

[Dad3353]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1416584418' post='2611700']...
Douglas, Stu, I haven't told you about my sideline, have I?...
[/quote]

No need; simple deduction on our part. [size=4] [/size]

[discreet]

Yesterday I ordered some control knobs from eBay, then realised I wouldn't need them - so cancelled the order. eBay seller was cool and refunded my payment to PayPal. But it's not available to me - PayPal have placed a 'temporary hold' on the refund and are 'reviewing the situation'. That is all the information available to me.

It's not a great deal of money and isn't particularly inconvenient - but how many thousands of other buyers are experiencing the same thing and how much interest are PayPal making out of this blatant crap? A 'real' bank would never put a hold on cash paid into an account - it's always immediately available.

What a load of rubbish! Seems like PayPal are total arses to everyone, buyers AND sellers!

Edited November 26, 2014 by discreet

[spectoremg]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1416998892' post='2615826']
Yesterday I ordered some control knobs from eBay, then realised I wouldn't need them - so cancelled the order. eBay seller was cool and refunded my payment to PayPal. But it's not available to me - PayPal have placed a 'temporary hold' on the refund and are 'reviewing the situation'. That is all the information available to me.

It's not a great deal of money and isn't particularly inconvenient - but how many thousands of other buyers are experiencing the same thing and how much interest are PayPal making out of this blatant crap? A 'real' bank would never put a hold on cash paid into an account - it's always immediately available.

What a load of rubbish! Seems like PayPal are total arses to everyone, buyers AND sellers!
[/quote]I've just fallen foul of their refund scam - £380 on temporary hold. Irritating thing is I could have done it bank transfer to a perfectly trustworthy BCer, which will be my preferred method in future.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='spectoremg' timestamp='1431629933' post='2773465']
I've just fallen foul of their refund scam - £380 on temporary hold. Irritating thing is I could have done it bank transfer to a perfectly trustworthy BCer, which will be my preferred method in future.
[/quote]

Some have criticised StringPing.com for not offering PayPal as a payment option, and I'm pleased to say that it's precisely because of crap like this that we don't offer PayPal as a payment option. It's happened to me personally before too, and it's highly irritating, regardless of the amount of money involved.

There is no justifiable reason, IMO, for PayPal to hold this money, but it is part of their practice, which we sign up to when we open an account with them.

They aren't a bank, and aren't regulated as one.