Denmark St under threat of redevelopment

[skankdelvar]

Signed.

The 17th century heritage angle is interesting - I didn't know about the rookeries. But having been up and down the wobbly, crooked (in more ways than one) staircase at the old 'Andy's Guitars' I can affirm the un-restored condition of at least one of the buildings. Mind you, there's some pretty average architecture further down towards Charing Cross Rd I doubt anyone might miss.

Anyhow, it's a good cause.

[toneknob]

Done!

Also, it'd be good if some of those 15000+ signers to date became regulars of the 12 Bar and surrounding music shops. I wonder how many are?

[karlfer]

Done.
Even though I only live 200 miles away now, wherever I have lived I have had a couple of pilgrimages every year.
I will never forget the first time I just stared in wonder in 1981.
We have had enough progress lining developers pockets thank you.

[Woodinblack]

Signed - I live in Yeovil, but this area is one I go to when I go to london and without it there would be one less reason to go.

[Chiliwailer]

I worked in Denmark St from 1993 - 2006. This development has been talked about since I got there, I kid you not. The council have had more than enough to time to think about this. Cash in their favour will win, music loses.

For many years the floors above the shops have been offices, now they are all being kicked out and it is being replaced with residential. The shops, that are deep enough to go into Denmark Place will be cut in half soon enough with one shop taken out entirely to make a walkway to the cross rail. We will be losing half of Wunjo, Westside etc.

The landlords are swearing that music will remain, but if the shops are paying 80,000 a year rent, they would say that.

Damn shame, modern life and all...

Edited November 2, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[theyellowcar]

Done.

[Lw.]

One of the companies in my group have their offices on Denmark Street and were told that one of the reasons for the development (other than monetary) is that the foundations of the buildings are too old to withstand the vibrations from the Crossrail drilling so they're being pulled down & rebuilt after. Could be rubbish but that's what they were told.

I'm torn about whether it is a shame or not that the music will probably be squeezed out; it's kind of a shame because of the history of the area & it'd be nice for future generations to be able to walk down the same road their idols may have to buy their instruments, but really it's the people that make the place/vibe not the location. If all the music stores & musicians left Denmark street & ended up somewhere cheaper there would be less financial pressure on the shops (which could open up wider stock ranges) and so long as they were all still in the same area as each other the arty vibe would still be there.

Up & coming musicians/artists do historicly congregate in the poorer areas so it is a bit odd that the musical mecca in one of the most expensive areas of the city (and country).

[fretmeister]

Denmark Street hasn't been a go-to music shopping place for me for years.

Don't think I've been back since the Astoria closed.

[CamdenRob]

It'd be a shame to see it go and be replaced with the usual homogeneous London high street of;

Starbucks - Ladbrokes - Starbucks - William Hill - Starbucks - Corals - Starbucks - Paddy Power - Starbucks

At least there are plenty of places I can go and drink over priced coffee and sit in the window writing a blog about the perils of consumer capatilism on my £2k macbook...

Edited November 3, 2014 by CamdenRob

[Lw.]

With the exception of Starbucks I doubt the rest of that list will be able to afford the area to be honest. It's all £8 sandwich shops and niche/revival clothes stores round here.

Though saying that, when Google move out of their big orange offices (next year or the one after I think) it'll probably turn into a bit of a ghost town which is generally when all the betting shops move in.

Edited November 3, 2014 by Lw.

[Dad3353]

I don't think that, despite its obvious historical interest, Pudding Lane still has a baker's shop. I suppose Stonehenge is safe enough (for now...), but there's not really that much 'sacred' beyond that. [size=4] [/size]

[TimR]

Canary Wharf is no longer docks. In the same way Crossrail will change the whole character of the area. That is what is proposed and needed.

http://www.crossrail.co.uk/route/stations/tottenham-court-road/

I can't see a petition will change this at all.

Hopefully the actual redevelopment of Denmark Street will retain the character of the building's facade. The original buildings were stables, not a purpose built music venue.

[TimR]

Has anyone seen plans of what is proposed?

Seems to me until we know what Camden have to 'rethink' it's a bit of a toothless petition.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Lw.' timestamp='1415008347' post='2595459']
. If all the music stores & musicians left Denmark street & ended up somewhere cheaper there would be less financial pressure on the shops (which could open up wider stock ranges) and so long as they were all still in the same area as each other the arty vibe would still be there.
[/quote]

Good call mate. Before Denmark Street, the music shops were in Shaftsbury Avenue, they moved to to Denmark Street for the cheaper rent. I reckon it'd be good for the shops to move as a whole where the rent isn't crazy - but still easy to access for tourists and suchas they need that footfall. Idealisticly speaking of course!

[Woodinblack]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415013946' post='2595553']
It would indeed be a shame but i wonder how many people disagreeing with the redevelopment and signing petitions etc actually use any of the above?
[/quote]

I have never been to any of those apart from starbucks, and wouldn't go to a starbucks if there were any other suppliers of tea around.

[geoham]

I'll sign that petition!

I'm from Glasgow, but pay London a visit every year or so. The whole street is worth a look around, though in fairness some shops aren't great! Each time I have visited recently, I have spent some cash in Wunjo. Better service than the only place in Glasgow with a reasonable stock of basses, and a better stock of basses than places in Glasgow with good service! My guitar playing mate is of the same opinion.

[Musky]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1415018782' post='2595629'] Has anyone seen plans of what is proposed? Seems to me until we know what Camden have to 'rethink' it's a bit of a toothless petition. [/quote]
The site plan is [url="http://planningonline.camden.gov.uk/MULTIWAM/doc/OS%20Extract-3119257.pdf?extension=.pdf&id=3119257&location=VOLUME3&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1"]here[/url], and all the plans are [url="http://planningonline.camden.gov.uk/MULTIWAM/showCaseFile.do?appType=Planning&appNumber=2012%2F6858%2FP"]here[/url] (there's a lot of them).

It would seem they've plans for the south side of the street as well.

[Bassman Sam]

Signed. I lived in London for the best part of 30 years and was a regular round Denmark Street. I would be sorry to see this redeveloped. I have a lot of fond memories of the area.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1415021524' post='2595680']
and wouldn't go to a starbucks if there were any other suppliers of tea around.
[/quote]
I'm sure i saw somewhere the other day that sold tea and wasn't called Starbucks.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1415021313' post='2595675']
Good call mate. Before Denmark Street, the music shops were in Shaftsbury Avenue, they moved to to Denmark Street for the cheaper rent. I reckon it'd be good for the shops to move as a whole where the rent isn't crazy - but still easy to access for tourists and suchas they need that footfall. Idealisticly speaking of course! [/quote]
....and of course many many years ago Denmark Street was residential. The music publishers first moved above shops in the 1920s and the boom time for them came in the 1950s then the music shops moved in. What is nostalgic for us isn't for others and later generations. I have no idea whether the redevelopment is a good idea or not but it's just the way the city evolves and moves on.

[Musky]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415061552' post='2596375']
....and of course many many years ago Denmark Street was residential. The music publishers first moved above shops in the 1920s and the boom time for them came in the 1950s then the music shops moved in. What is nostalgic for us isn't for others and later generations. I have no idea whether the redevelopment is a good idea or not but it's just the way the city evolves and moves on.
[/quote]

Fair points, but nobody has suggested the city be preserved in aspic. It's more a case of how we would like to see the city evolve and move on - see the original plans for Covent Garden Market or the Oxo Tower, both of which were thwarted by local campaigns. What we have now contribute far more to London than the office blocks wanted by the developers.

In Denmark St the developer's plans currently envisage populating the area with statues of rock stars, which does seem a little like creating a museum based past glories for the curious rather the thriving community that exists now.

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1415061552' post='2596375']
....and of course many many years ago Denmark Street was residential. [/quote]

True, though now instead of the Sex Pistols living their we'll have societies sw***y folk. Maybe John Lydon will return in that case

edit: why did my word s-w-a-n-k-y get starred?!!!

Edited November 4, 2014 by Chiliwailer

[Chiliwailer]

[quote name='Musky' timestamp='1415084865' post='2596413']
In Denmark St the developer's plans currently envisage populating the area with statues of rock stars, which does seem a little like creating a museum based past glories for the curious rather the thriving community that exists now.
[/quote]

In theory I absolutely love your points and wish that things could continue as they are / were. Sadly, in reality, the change to the whole Centre Point area (and the current way Charing Cross Rd is going) means that the rents in Denmark Street will be more over inflated than they already are. The rent there is astronomical. In an ideal world, the shops would get together and move somewhere more realistic, that'd help them thrive more too sticking together. Just like they did in the 60's when they came to Denmark Street.

My heart is in Denmark Street, I had 12 years there from the age of 15, I pretty much grew up there and worked in most of the shops. But the scene may just of had it's day in Denmark St and need refreshing, perhaps away from the West End and in an area that can promote more of a community again? There hasnt been a muso community there for years, its simply retail, stack them and shift them.

[Billy Apple]

I think if Wunjo's was not there no one here would give a toss about the place. I was down there on Sunday and just thought 'Meh'. The whole area is being developed and I think it is naive to think it will escape. I think Denmark St trades on past glories that are long gone, but the residents do little to bring that heritage forward in a way that is relevant to younger kids coming through. Times change and people move on. But I don't think any of this will stop basses being bought or music being made.

The place always seems a bit empty when I go down

[toneknob]

The 12 bar Club has recently announced its closure in January 2015. From their Facebook page at https://www.facebook.com/12BarClub

"We are very sad to announce that The 12 Bar Club has been given notice to vacate Denmark Street by the middle of January.

The 12 Bar Club will live on

We will announce details of our new location shortly"