Working with audio loops - flexibility?

[ras52]

Hi, I'm getting further into using a DAW (in my case Pro Tools) for songwriting demos, and I'm puzzled by how I might use audio loops and samples, as I've acquired some huge libraries of these that came bundled with virtual instruments.

MIDI loops/clips make complete sense to me: e.g. I can take a MIDI drum loop and tinker with it to create individual fills and other variations. But with an audio (WAV) loop I'm stuck with what I've been given, aren't I? It seems to me that if it's not an exact fit, I'm stuffed. Especially so with melodic and harmonic loops - fine if I want exactly the progression in say a rhythm guitar loop, but not much use otherwise?

[topo morto]

It used to be the case that you had to 'take it or leave it' with audio, but not any more - there are tools that you can use to tweak the timing of the loop (ableton does this) or even change individual notes (Melodyne does this). Obviously there are limits to what you can do - there's no way yet that I'm aware of that you're going to be able to change one note in a distorted gutar chord, and all these processes have side-effects.

I am well out of date with the tools that are available so others may have better suggestions. I'm not sure what tools pro tools gives you to do these things (what version are you using?) but they are technically possible.

[Zenitram]

Yeah, audio is far more elastic than it used to be, and in many ways is [i]more[/i] malleable than midi. Stretch it, compact it, chop it, tune it, you can do all sorts these days.

I'm sure Pro Tools is packed with fun things to do with audio; in fact, isn't audio its strong point? Or is it more about "tracking" and "producing" than composing.

[Drax]

[quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1415034712' post='2595915']
Yeah, audio is far more elastic than it used to be, and in many ways is [i]more[/i] malleable than midi. Stretch it, compact it, chop it, tune it, you can do all sorts these days.

I'm sure Pro Tools is packed with fun things to do with audio; in fact, isn't audio its strong point? Or is it more about "tracking" and "producing" than composing.
[/quote]

That's it. ProTools is a great bedrock for the full blown studio, but other DAWs are leagues ahead on intuitive / creative audio manipulation.

[ras52]

I see... yes, PT has been described as a virtual tape recorder :-)

[lowdown]

[quote name='DanR' timestamp='1415035618' post='2595929']
That's it. ProTools is a great bedrock for the full blown studio, but other DAWs are leagues ahead on intuitive / creative audio manipulation.
[/quote]

Yep, although PT's is trying hard to catch up.

Another good use for those samples you have is to extract as midi.
Single lines or chords these days, depending on DAW and software.
You can then use the midi info as groove quantise pre-sets.
All manner of feel and swing% then available to you for humanising static
programmed lines.

Edited November 3, 2014 by lowdown

[BigRedX]

Have a look at [url=https://www.propellerheads.se/products/recycle/]Recycle[/url]. It's been my loop manipulation software of choice for over 15 years.

[ras52]

Ah yes, I thought there'd be some clever people and some clever software to manipulate these. :-)

[NancyJohnson]

With a drummer who simply didn't want to go into the studio, it was left to the rest of us to capture the songs on an aging Dell PC in the comfort of my spare bedroom.

I use a bunch of drum loops - all WAVs - from Beta Monkey and Loopology and found the process quite fulfilling; OK on occasion you may listen to our back catalogue and hear the same drums/fills, but it's better than nothing, eh?

My software is pretty old (Adobe Audition 3.0 - now free kids), but I know it backwards so see no reason to change it. I found that if you set the session tempo for each song and used loops at a [i]lower [/i]bpm to the session rate, the results were more than acceptable - the drums will fit the bar/tempo automatically. (You don't seem to be able to slow down a loop though...it goes all funny.) Obviously you need to work on putting in cymbals and other poop, but it was great getting the songs just how I/we wanted them.

I finished this about half hour ago - it's just audio...no vocals:
[media]http://www.nancyjohnson.co.uk/_2014%20Demos/11%20%28Scratch%29%202.mp3[/media]
P

Edited November 4, 2014 by NancyJohnson

[Bilbo]

I too have a load of loops availabe but can't make them do anything - they just take up space in my PC's memory. How do I get them from a file folder into Cubase to make a drum like noise? I have loads of VSTs I can work with but can't make anything of these loop thingummyjig.

[NancyJohnson]

From my perspective, I have a main 1TB drive on the PC...the Beta Monkey loops take up 4.8GB of space, the other stuff (Loopology/ProTools stuff etc) takes up 13.8gb, so around 2% of my drive.

When you create a session, you simply import the loop into the session, work with it and save the session...the original loop remains unchanged and (in my case) Audition creates a smallish session file (perhaps less than 5mb) that you can double click to reopen the session; this retains all the information pertaining to the song, including whatever you've done to manipulate the drum loops.

To be honest, the thing that sucks drive space is the saving of guitar/bass takes you're never going to use...you record, make a mistake, delete it from the session. Audition saves every single take.
P

Edited November 4, 2014 by NancyJohnson

[ras52]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1415102763' post='2596624']
I have loads of VSTs I can work with but can't make anything of these loop thingummyjig.
[/quote]

Glad it's not just me then.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1415104602' post='2596661']
To be honest, the thing that sucks drive space is the saving of guitar/bass takes you're never going to use...you record, make a mistake, delete it from the session. Audition saves every single take.
P
[/quote]

People do more than one take?