Replacement 15" speakers for Hartke 2x15 XL - Birth of Fartke Jah Speaker ;)

[Raslee]

One of the speakers has blown in my 400W Hartke 2x15 XL, the aluminum cone is all cracked according to a friend and beyond repair.

Thinking of replacing probably both speakers, probably for paper speakers too...would like a bit more power/ volume on tap...using a Markbass 800W amp or Carvin 1500W amp. This cab will be used for reggae/ska with both elec & double bass, wanting lots of low end, reliability as it will be played with a lot of low frequency dub stuff. The cab has four bass ports or whatever it is you call them, see pic.

Any suggestions of a particular speaker upgrade? I know there's lots of physics involved but I'm more sociologist than scientist, so all help appreciated. Weight of new speakers not an issue.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Raslee

[Dood]

I'd save yourself the bother of possibly having to retune that cabinet to make it suitable for a different speaker - even worse would be to only replace one cone I'm afraid. The 15's in this cab are pretty conservatively rated and my suggestion would be to get the current speaker direct from Korg UK who are the distributors for Hartke.

[Raslee]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1415225811' post='2598248']
I'd save yourself the bother of possibly having to retune that cabinet to make it suitable for a different speaker - even worse would be to only replace one cone I'm afraid. The 15's in this cab are pretty conservatively rated and my suggestion would be to get the current speaker direct from Korg UK who are the distributors for Hartke.
[/quote]
Cheers Dood, Yeah i must admit that has been on my mind too as i do like the sound of the cab, i'll call Korg tomorrow.

[stevie]

As long as the coil is moving freely you can generally patch up a damaged cone. I obviously don't know how badly cracked it is, but you might consider using some Araldite on it.

[pmjos]

I suggest if the cab wasn't delivering for you then you should replace the damaged cone with one original and sell. Then get a better suited cab. Cab designs are very complex especially dual cone ported varieties. If you replace one of both cones with anything other than a driver the original design parameters either you will kill the remaining cone or it will sounds crap or both. Retuning the cab would require modeling from Theile Small parameters of the drivers. If they are matched it really hard, if they are different, it gets propper complicated, if one driver is old and its perfromance has drifted form the design parameters due to changes in its physical elasticity and hence frequency responce change...............well you get the drift. Fix it properly with a matching cone , sell at a fair price and get the one you need.

[Phil Starr]

Another one for replacing the existing driver. Moving in a new driver isn't always as straightforward as you might hope and the cab will lose value if it isn't original even if the replacements are better drivers. This might just be an expensive way of buying a box. Self building is rewarding but you won't know what your cab is going to sound like until it is too late to change your mind. However if you do go ahead there are plenty of people here who will help you re-tune your cab.

Be hard headed, find the cost of a replacement driver and the secondhand value of a working cab. If the cab is worth more that the driver repair it. Then decide if you want to sell and upgrade.

If the repaired cab is worth less than the driver costs the repair is uneconomic, but you might pick up a used driver or an old 1x15 on evilbay. Alternatively if you love the cab and see one cheap..... You'll also get something for your old cab even damaged.

If the cab is uneconomic to repair then you need to price up the cost of a couple of 15's (£60-200ea) and decide whether you want to take the risk on what they might sound like.

Stevie is right by the way, speakers are often more repairable than you think. Put up some detailed pics and we might be able to suggest a repair which might gain you a year or two of extra use.

[Raslee]

Cheers for the info guys, I'm going to ring Korg now and find out how much a replacement speaker would be

Here is some pics of the faulty one taken by my mate:

[attachment=175656:spek 1.jpg]

[attachment=175657:spek 2.jpg]

According to my mate it wasn't working at all.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Raslee

[stevie]

That looks pretty bad. If the coil is open circuit there's not a lot you can do yourself.

If that were my cab, I'd get myself some new drivers. The cab looks well built, it's plywood, and £200 - £250 invested in premium drivers will get you a system that will outperform just about any 2x15 out there. It's unlikely that you'll have to retune the cabinet - you just have to find some drivers that suit the cab and perform well with bass. Most people, I realise, will just go for a new cab.

Alternatively, check eBay for used drivers as Phil suggested. You can often pick up 15-inch drivers for peanuts. Interestingly, someone in your area (Exeter) is selling a pair of nice Celestions on eBay - collection only. They are not the latest and greatest, but they are in the same league as your Hartke's. Just over a day to go and still at 99p. Better not post the URL - just do an eBay search for Celestion K15-200. Those will get you up and running again and give you time to decide how to proceed.

Edited November 6, 2014 by stevie

[Raslee]

So, Korg (Hartke suppliers) have contacted me back, and quickly too, £110 for 1 x 15" XL speaker posted or around £180 for two. Now the cab cost me £100, but i do like it...it has heavy duty castors , is well built and weigh's a ton which is great for my band as they love to carry it .

Interestingly Korg in my email put the speakers as 300W, not sure if that's a typo as the originals were 200W, but 300W would be preferable if the newer speakers are that.

But i can't stopping thinking about some decent Eminence speakers like the 3015LF ...but then there's tuning the cab, physics lessons etc...BTW how do you tune a cab? And how do you find the litres of a cab?

[stevie]

You won't need to alter the tuning of the cab. Just leave it as it is. To find the volume of the cab, multiply the three internal dimensions - height, width and depth.

Edited November 6, 2014 by stevie

[Dood]

[quote name='Raslee' timestamp='1415282695' post='2598725']
So, Korg (Hartke suppliers) have contacted me back, and quickly too, £110 for 1 x 15" XL speaker posted or around £180 for two. Now the cab cost me £100, but i do like it...it has heavy duty castors , is well built and weigh's a ton which is great for my band as they love to carry it .

Interestingly Korg in my email put the speakers as 300W, not sure if that's a typo as the originals were 200W, but 300W would be preferable if the newer speakers are that.

But i can't stopping thinking about some decent Eminence speakers like the 3015LF ...but then there's tuning the cab, physics lessons etc...BTW how do you tune a cab? And how do you find the litres of a cab?
[/quote]

The later 15" XLs were indeed upgraded to 300W RMS as I understand it. £180 for a pair of speakers of this quality is actually very good and Korg are brilliant. Buying a pair will give you a 600W cabinet and it'll happily spank a lot of 2x15's out there. A single 3015LF from Lean is £175. Case dismissed

[chris_b]

Don't worry about all the advice about re tuning the cab. It probably wasn't scientifically designed in the first place.

How many cabs out there were built to the "wet finger in the air" principal, and still sound pretty good in a band? Quite a lot.

I'd replace both speakers with the ones Korg is suggesting. They should sound better than the originals.

[taunton-hobbit]

You could do faaar worse that the Celestions on e Bay. Used four celestions back in the day at Henley Regatta & had complaints from Marlow nick - cracked it!)

[Raslee]

[quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1415310211' post='2599175']
You could do faaar worse that the Celestions on e Bay. Used four celestions back in the day at Henley Regatta & had complaints from Marlow nick - cracked it!)

[/quote]

[stevie]

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1415292300' post='2598903']
The later 15" XLs were indeed upgraded to 300W RMS as I understand it. £180 for a pair of speakers of this quality is actually very good and Korg are brilliant. Buying a pair will give you a 600W cabinet and it'll happily spank a lot of 2x15's out there. A single 3015LF from Lean is £175. Case dismissed
[/quote]

You're paying a premium for the neo magnets with the 3015LF. A driver with a ceramic magnet will cost half that. Case reopened. But yes, get the Celestions if you can.

Edited November 6, 2014 by stevie

[Phil Starr]

I think it would be safer to say you [b]probably[/b] won't need to re tune your cab, which is done by changing the length of the ports. The cab looks like it is right in the middle of the size range for this size of speaker and they are usually tuned around 50Hz. However some of us will remember skidder swapping out his 15's for Eminence 3015HO 's and blowing one because he didn't check. A lot depends upon how you intend using the cab as well.

It's a matter of minutes for one of us to check for you, so ask before you buy.

Your cab new, costs £469 from Gear4music http://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Hartke-215BXL-Bass-Cabinet I'd expect to pay about half that for a good used one so at £190 you would be in profit, just. There aren't many new drivers that would be a significant upgrade at £95ea

[Raslee]

So I won the eBay Celestion's x2 for 99p, will probably give the seller a little more - worth a punt at that, if they don't work out then I'll probably source the XLs from Korg - Thanks for all the helpful input guys

[Raslee]

I’m never one to leave a thread without a conclusion! What happened to the Hartke 2x15” I hear you all shout

Well, I did bid on the eBay Celestions and won them for 99p, only to be ignored by the seller and then via dispute he claimed he never meant to sell them for 99p and blamed his partner, so I thought tits to that one. I was then all set to purchase some of the aluminium Hartke replacement speakers when of course the bloody car plays up, resulting in getting another motor for wifey. Inevitably the Hartke speaker purchase was postponed until the New Year.

Step in the guitarse from my other band; he kindly gave me for free two old PA speakers that he no longer uses. To both our surprise they were loaded with 15” Eminence Delta LF's, 500W at 4ohm. So I thought I’d give them a bash, wired in series - guessing that’s 1000W @ 8ohms . Anyhow tried them out and wow, pretty impressive giving a great defined reggae vibe which is what I was after, no rattling just smooth low end using my Markbass LMT 800. I don't understand the physics and hell it may blow but it seems OK.

Then I went a little bit mad with some paint testers , and voila The Fartke ‘Jah’ Speaker.... I quite like it, it’s rough from the ghetto, it’s irie and well if it conks out on me and becomes all Fartke then perhaps I’ll get those proper Hartke speakers after all…but for now my ears and eyes are satisfied.

[attachment=177646:Fartke Jah Speaker.jpg]

[Telebass]

"Like!"

[Phil Starr]

I do love a happy ending.

[Twincam]

Another like from me.

[taunton-hobbit]

I love it........anything that can chuck dub is fine with me............

[Raslee]

Cheers guys... I'm very happy with it - it sounded superb last night at practice, heavy dub bass, smooth delivery and definition. Only downside is that it weighs a ton but it will only do rehearsals and possibly a few festival gigs

[ShergoldSnickers]

Like the paint job and it looks like you've got a great result there.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ShergoldSnickers