The cost of a Fodera. Worth it?

[thebassist]

I posted in another thread that I'm in the market for a 6 string at the moment and while looking around online, the prices of Fodera basses has really struck a chord.

They seem to be upwards or, in some circumstances, in excess of double the cost of any other "equivalent" basses out there. I know taste, what people like, etc. is extremely personal and very subjective indeed but are they really that much better in people's opinions?

[Conan]

Ah - the old "can of worms" question again....

This could get interesting!

My own opinion is that they are not worth the vast sums they cost. To be fair, I haven't played one - but I personally would find it impossible to justify paying such a sum on what is (for me) essentially a toy, or part of a hobby.

I'm sure they are incredible to play, and the attention to detail in their manufacture is staggering. But the prices???

But there are quite a number of BC members who own them - I'm sure they'll be along shortly with their counter-arguments!

Edited November 6, 2014 by Conan

[thebassist]

I'm absolutely not trying to get into an argument or anything - I'm genuinely interested to understand whether there is something very, very special/unique to justify their prices compared with say a custom ACG, Ken Smith, Wal, Overwater, etc.

[CamdenRob]

I guess they are "worth" whatever someone is prepared to pay for them... It's justifying that worth that is the issue with Fodera or indeed any other bass manufacturer.

If you feel that a £20k Fodera is giving you something that no other bass can, and you have the resources to buy one then yes - they are worth it.

Buying a top end bass is not just about the quality of the instrument itself, it also has a lot to do with identifying yourself with the brand of instrument you have chosen to play in public... Some would look upon a Fodera player as a man with an uncompromising taste for quality... others would see a guy wtih more money than sense...

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1415289844' post='2598857']
I posted in another thread that I'm in the market for a 6 string at the moment and while looking around online, the prices of Fodera basses has really struck a chord.

They seem to be upwards or, in some circumstances, in excess of double the cost of any other "equivalent" basses out there. I know taste, what people like, etc. is extremely personal and very subjective indeed but are they really that much better in people's opinions?
[/quote]

I suppose it depends on the chord that was struck.

[40hz]

Massive can of worms! My own personal opinion is that I wouldn't. Other people would. No doubt they are beautifully built and designed, I just wouldn't spend over 2k on an instrument. I can get all the sound quality and build quality I'll ever need up to that price point. In no way way would I tell someone thst they are wrong though, horses for courses and all that (although I do have to say I find very few boutique instruments attractive, too much coffee table)

[chris_b]

There are many things I would not buy because of the price tag. It doesn't make them "not worth it" or a waste of money.

If you can afford a Fodera, and can [i]appreciate[/i] what it is, buy one and play it every day. It will be one of the best basses you've ever picked up.

[thebassist]

Wow - including shipping and taxes that comes in at over £5300! It does look nice, has 24 frets, is 34-inch scale and, reading up on it, looks like it'd be ideal... it's just a shame that it's so much money. Incredibly that's £5300 for a non-custom instrument too.

http://www.basscentral.com/pdimages/2014/BLOWUPS%202014/FODERA%20EMP%206%20STD%20BLK%20HARDW%20ES6012%20blowup.php

Edited November 6, 2014 by thebassist

[Conan]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1415291063' post='2598879']
Some would look upon a Fodera player as a man with an uncompromising taste for quality...
[/quote]

That raises an interesting point actually...

You don't see many female bass players with Foderas. I am totally NOT going to be drawn on any suggestions as to why that may be...

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1415292632' post='2598911']
That raises an interesting point actually...

You don't see many female bass players with Foderas. I am totally NOT going to be drawn on any suggestions as to why that may be...
[/quote]

Actually that's my fault, I should have used a gender neutral marker... Mrs C would be outraged...

Edited November 6, 2014 by CamdenRob

[TolerancEJ]

In addition to the custom builds, Fodera has also released Standard series of the Monarch, Emperor, Victor Wooten Yin Yang, Matt Garrison, Tom Kennedy models. Standards are a little less expensive than a full custom build.

[thebassist]

[quote name='TolerancEJ' timestamp='1415293779' post='2598917']
In addition to the custom builds, Fodera has also released Standard series of the Monarch, Emperor, Victor Wooten Yin Yang, Matt Garrison, Tom Kennedy models. Standards are a little less expensive than a full custom build.
[/quote]

Yes, this Emperor is the standard model and it's £5300ish. In my eyes, that is an awful lot of cash for a non-custom instrument.

http://www.basscentral.com/pdimages/2014/BLOWUPS%202014/FODERA%20EMP%206%20STD%20BLK%20HARDW%20ES6012%20blowup.php

Edited November 6, 2014 by thebassist

[KevB]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1415291063' post='2598879']
Buying a top end bass is not just about the quality of the instrument itself, it also has a lot to do with identifying yourself with the brand of instrument you have chosen to play in public... Some would look upon a Fodera player as a man with an uncompromising taste for quality... others would see a guy wtih more money than sense...
[/quote]

Pretty much this, and it's not confined to basses or even music. People show exactly this type of behaviour with things like cars all the time.

[TolerancEJ]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1415293896' post='2598918']
Yes, this Emperor is the standard model and it's £5300ish. In my eyes, that is an awful lot of cash for a non-custom instrument.

[url="http://www.basscentral.com/pdimages/2014/BLOWUPS%202014/FODERA%20EMP%206%20STD%20BLK%20HARDW%20ES6012%20blowup.php"]http://www.basscentr...12%20blowup.php[/url]
[/quote]
Agreed. I wish I owned one but reality tells me that I probably will not.

[peteb]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1415290267' post='2598864']
Ah - the old "can of worms" question again....

This could get interesting!

My own opinion is that they are not worth the vast sums they cost. To be fair, I haven't played one...
[/quote]
I have played one and it was a genuinely exceptional instrument, but was it twice as good as a Roscoe??

There are a lot of really excellent instruments around the £2-3k mark, so it has to be something special to justify the type of prices that a Fodera will go for. But they are very very good...

[Black Coffee]

I have never played a Fodera. I have owned £3,000 of Dingwall and it was a hugely pleasant experience but I couldn't relax with it as I was terrified of getting a dent in it. It was a totally quality bass and sounded huge, did all that I expected etc.

But.

I wonder does there come a point when more money doesn't buy a better bass but just looks like you've been suckered by the emperors new clothes (or bass). Fodera have the reputation of being the mutts nuts of basses, Alembic might argue they are too. But until I play one I can't comment on the playability, so I will comment on the price. Dingwall made it affordable for me to dabble in big money quality, for the equivalent Fodera I'd be paying three times that maybe. Is it really worth that? I will probably never know.

This is a can of worms which will never die. Best leave it as I found it. IMHO they are desirable, but not worth 10-12,000 quid for someone like me.

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1415297373' post='2598977']
"not worth 10-12,000 quid for someone like me."

Don't do yourself down. You're worth it.
[/quote]

Cheers for the encouragement. Just bein realistic. If I could get the financial planets to line up I'd probably jump and buy one but I've just bought a custom built ACG J bass and already I'm needin to sell it cuz I'm skint , totally.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1415291063' post='2598879']
Buying a top end bass is not just about the quality of the instrument itself, it also has a lot to do with identifying yourself with the brand of instrument you have chosen to play in public... Some would look upon a Fodera player as a man with an uncompromising taste for quality... others would see a guy wtih more money than sense...
[/quote]

What would right minded bass players think of someone who owns a Fodera but can't play very well?

[thebassist]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1415298234' post='2598992']
What would right minded bass players think of someone who owns a Fodera but can't play very well?
[/quote]

That is exactly what I'd be if I bought one...

[Cameronj279]

Personally I've never been impressed by a Fodera either Aesthetically or tonally. I would love to try one but I have to say after playing various brands such as ACG, Mayones, Sei, Dingwall and even some Warwicks I've owned, I fail to comprehend where the extra 4k+ would be worth it.

Again. I would stress that this is my opinion but for the price of a Fodera I could get 3/4 ACGs. I know what my money would be going on.

[Cameronj279]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1415301159' post='2599046']

So, you don't like the look of them - fair enough. The characteristic that might sway you though is in the playing of one surely?
I don't think you can write them off without doing so can you?
[/quote]

I wasn't writing them off. I was merely stating that so far I haven't heard or seen one which makes me desire to own it (certainly not more than my current bass which is a good 3x cheaper than some of the cheaper Foderas. I would love to try one and when I do I may change my mind about them.

[Happy Jack]

I should probably leave this alone, but it so happens that I was lucky enough to visit Fodera in NYC, meet the makers, see the workshops.

No, I wasn't buying one!

Essentially you're buying into a pretty exclusive club, and like any other such club they're a really nice bunch of people who make you feel right at home.

They're still a family firm, everyone there is absolutely into what they are doing, and demand permanently outstrips supply.

In that environment, you can charge pretty much what you want. How much you'd pay for a Fender or a Yamaha is simply irrelevant. They don't compete in that market.

And of course I played one. I am in no way a great bass player (and that's not false modesty) but I own and have owned some lovely instruments, so I can make some sort of comparison.

The Foderas I played were simply wonderful basses. Better than Alleva Coppolo or Status or Goodfellow or Dingwall? No, of course not, at this level "better" becomes meaningless - it's simply a matter of what you enjoy playing.

If I'd had the money available, I would have had no problem at all with paying Fodera prices. I didn't so I didn't.

[fretmeister]

[quote name='thebassist' timestamp='1415290660' post='2598874']
I'm absolutely not trying to get into an argument or anything - I'm genuinely interested to understand whether there is something very, very special/unique to justify their prices compared with say a custom ACG, Ken Smith, Wal, Overwater, etc.
[/quote]

I'm guessing an awful lot of it is paying the mental New York rent on their workshop.

I bet they could be half-price if they moved to some derelict sh*t hole on the outskirts of Detroit

[skej21]

If you think about the maths, the question is surely 'are companies other than Fodera charging enough?'

If you think that a custom Overwater is between £2500-3500, probably £1000 of that will be costs of materials. That leaves about £2500 of profit and wages for the guy making the bass. Say the entire £2500 goes to the builder for wages, they would need to produce 5 basses a year just to make the £12k minimum wage.

Now I doubt that a full £2500 from a build would go to the builder as profits would need to be taken too. So if the builder takes £1000 with £1500 staying as profit/rent/general business running costs, the builder would need to produce 12 basses a year to pick up a minimum wage salary. Now these builds have an average 6 month completion which means they would need to construct 6 basses simultaneously twice a year to get that minimum wage salary.

For someone with such craftsmanship and skill who you are expecting to dedicate all of their time, service and skill to producing the bass that you've paid a lot of money for, you'd hope they'd pick up a better wage for their hard work than £12k.

If they do, they either have to produce a lot more (which means either more builders/wages or that builder producing more basses - potentially compromising quality over speed of production!). The only other option is to increase the price of the instrument so that you can produce less at a higher quality with more time and focus for each instrument.

That's the only way I can work it out.

Edited November 6, 2014 by skej21

[Black Coffee]

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1415302145' post='2599070']


I'm guessing an awful lot of it is paying the mental New York rent on their workshop.

I bet they could be half-price if they moved to some derelict sh*t hole on the outskirts of Detroit
[/quote]

If they moved to some place else they wouldn't be the original nyc fodera anymore. Forgive me for stating the obvious. But i do agree with you.

It's an exclusive club maybe, but persons who can afford the price are not connoisseurs of taste or more discerning than the next guy. They just have the means to afford one. I'd like to see Fodera as a bucket list item for me.