Let's Talk Lighting

[redbandit599]

[url="http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-studio-par-64-18x8w-quad-colour.html?gclid=CNyEvLSDlsICFfHKtAodA2gAyA"]http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-studio-par-64-18x8w-quad-colour.html?gclid=CNyEvLSDlsICFfHKtAodA2gAyA[/url]

I've started looking around now, lights gas (gaslight?) is spreading... Came across these, look like serious beasts with 18x8w each. Wondering if I could have fewer, more powerful lights now... Suppose spread maybe the issue, also how bright is too bright!?

[ratman]

I'm thinking about investing in some lights. The set I'm thinking about is this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_stage_tri_led_bundle_complete.htm Does anyone here have these, or any like them? Are they any good for small to medium gigs?
Cheers.

[Norris]

[quote name='ratman' timestamp='1416929699' post='2615152']
I'm thinking about investing in some lights. The set I'm thinking about is this: http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_stage_tri_led_bundle_complete.htm Does anyone here have these, or any like them? Are they any good for small to medium gigs?
Cheers.
[/quote]

That doesn't look a bad aet. As the controller is DMX512 you should be able to add more lights in future if you need to.

[Norris]

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1416928384' post='2615131']
[url="http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-studio-par-64-18x8w-quad-colour.html?gclid=CNyEvLSDlsICFfHKtAodA2gAyA"]http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-studio-par-64-18x8w-quad-colour.html?gclid=CNyEvLSDlsICFfHKtAodA2gAyA[/url]

I've started looking around now, lights gas (gaslight?) is spreading... Came across these, look like serious beasts with 18x8w each. Wondering if I could have fewer, more powerful lights now... Suppose spread maybe the issue, also how bright is too bright!?
[/quote]

They do look serious beasts. Not the cheapest either. Personally I think I'd go for several lower powered and cheaper units, but then we play mainly in pubs and like a couple of colour washes at a time. Depends on where you play and how many you're thinking of buying. They would cast a good shadow

[dmccombe7]

Showtec dmx 24channel desk,
12-13 PARS of varying makes
1 lazer
4 projectors
1 scanner (not great and will replace at some point)
2 smoke machines - one DMX controlled the other manually from lighting eng. (my wife )

Maplins do pretty good stands.
2 front of band
1 goal post type at rear of stage which can be split into normal side stands if req'd

[Phil Starr]

[quote name='redbandit599' timestamp='1416928384' post='2615131']
[url="http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-studio-par-64-18x8w-quad-colour.html?gclid=CNyEvLSDlsICFfHKtAodA2gAyA"]http://www.musik-pro...CFfHKtAodA2gAyA[/url]

I've started looking around now, lights gas (gaslight?) is spreading... Came across these, look like serious beasts with 18x8w each. Wondering if I could have fewer, more powerful lights now... Suppose spread maybe the issue, also how bright is too bright!?
[/quote]
[quote name='ratman' timestamp='1416929699' post='2615152']
I'm thinking about investing in some lights. The set I'm thinking about is this: [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_stage_tri_led_bundle_complete.htm"]http://www.thomann.d...le_complete.htm[/url] Does anyone here have these, or any like them? Are they any good for small to medium gigs?
Cheers.
[/quote]

Those are serious lights, I decided the 21W tri led lights were too powerful for pub gigs those are 170W! Though they can be dimmed obviously. Depends what you play and where. These would do most bands http://www.musik-produktiv.co.uk/cameo-flat-par-can-tri-3w.html and I'd have four of these rather than one of the big guys.

The led lights all look like they come out of the same factory with perhaps the casing changed a bit. The Stairville/Thomann lights have a slighly shorter stand thatn the KAM equivalent which can be an issue in some venues. Thats a seriously good price though. I eventually went with the Kam ParBar REM1 which has been a great buy, does the job and is no bother. It is bright enough for just about all we do as a pub covers band, the one you are looking at is brighter. If you use it close to you it will dazzle you but the colours should be nice and intense. These lights are great but are really designed for disco's so the flashing can be a bit manic at times, wouldn't suit a folk band

Edited November 27, 2014 by Phil Starr

[ratman]

Thanks Phil

[redbandit599]

I eventually picked up a pair of those Ledj 7Q5's, seem pretty good to me.

Quick questions for those that know before I expand the lighting stable further.

Can you slave pretty much any manufacturers kit together (using DMX leads) and if so would they all follow the same pattern as the 'master'? As I imagine different manufaturers will have different programs etc.

What happens if you try and run RGB units as slaves from an RGBW? (Or vice versa.)

Cheers J

[KevB]

I got the original versions of these (light units are round rather than square ok mk.II but otherwise the same);
[url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/kam-partybar-mk-ii-portable-led-stage-lighting-n40ht"]http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/kam-partybar-mk-ii-portable-led-stage-lighting-n40ht[/url]
And also one of these;
[url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/green-and-red-laser-star-projector-n96hg"]http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/green-and-red-laser-star-projector-n96hg[/url]
And for the money I can't knock either of them really. Could probably do with a second set of both at some point but they are easy to set up and don't take up much room in smaller venues.

[spacey]

Dont know, but with our LEDJ 7q5 put one on sound to light, set the fade speed to about 3 and slave the others up and they seem to do a good job, never leave you in the dark and default to slow colour fade when not playing.
No point putting the other party bar leds on, as with just two led J cans you can not see them, the ledj 7q5 just over power them.
going to get two more and two cans a side will more than light the stage with good clear light.

[redbandit599]

Cheers Spacey, I'll try that setting out. Do you have your cans on the floor or mounted higher somehow?

[JTUK]

I like the flood of the[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] Ledj 7q5,..might have to look at the closer.[/font][/color]

[spacey]

At the moment its one a side in a lighting pole, just one aside fill the stage quite well, going to add two more and put two a side on a cut down T bar so they can angle back a bit to the drums
4 aside on a bar would be over kill in my opinion unless we are talking a huge stage .
They are best paired at the side of the stage front, they DMX up faultlessly with one as master and others as slaves, put the master sound to light and just use the little remote you can buy to black out or fire them up on stage light colour is uniform anyway on DMX.
You could not really put them right on front of the band, they would snow blind you, they do chuck out some serious light for the size of the unit.
Stage side lights the band real nice.

[EliasMooseblaster]

There appear to be plenty of knowledgeable people on this thread, so I shall ask for your counsel before I spend a large amount of money doing something stupid!

I think it's time Cherry White had their own lighting, just to improve the overall experience, but I think coloured lights would be at odds with the style of the music. Personally, I think we'd suit a bit of dramatic white lighting (exhibit A: https://youtu.be/1n4I0qYrdXo), so I had in mind something similar to exhibit B: https://youtu.be/h8z-WLL0VHA, albeit without the blue wash.

So basically, a couple of standing lamps in the middle of the stage for the most part, then for moments when the music is being more dramatic, I thought it would be good to have some small spotlights on the floor (quiet bits) and maybe a couple of floodlights at the back (loud bits). And, as we can't afford our own lighting engineer at the moment, I thought it would be useful to cobble together some footswitches, so that somebody who knows the set well (e.g., me) could trigger them whilst on stage.

Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to tell me whether this is an ill-advised (or even downright dangerous) idea.

[Norris]

It might be easier to invest in a DMX controller as these will generally allow you to set up several "scenes". On ours I just use two - playing and breaks, although my controller can do at least 16 different scenes.

As for the other question about master/slave without a controller, that should work ok if you are connecting identical lights. If you have a mixture of brands/types you may need to use a controller and set up different channels for each type within each scene
Edit: ...and read the manual for each light so you can set the base address

Edited April 4, 2015 by Norris

[EliasMooseblaster]

Ah, ok, I was thinking in much simpler terms - along the lines of a footswitch for each bank of lights that would simply kick the mains power in or out. I could see getting away with this for the main lights and the small floor lights, but I'm a bit concerned that this might lead to blown bulbs or fuses for the floodlights!

[Dad3353]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1428151521' post='2738527']...
Your mission, if you choose to accept it, is to tell me whether this is an ill-advised (or even downright dangerous) idea.
[/quote]

Lighting, as you intimate, is a whole field, with a gamut of possibilities at least as wide as the music. If you can't have a dedicated 'lighter', then minimalist is a reasonable road to tread. All white is alright; that concept, at least, I approve. I would, however, be wary of having 'mains' footswitches under one's feet. Budget is, of course, always an issue, but have a look at low-voltage remote control switches, such as those found in stair wells to command the lights. These exist using 12, 24 or 48 volts (as well as 240v versions...), and could be centralised much like a set of circuit breakers. Each switch would act exactly like any other, but commanded by a footswitch pedal board with only low voltage, so less problematic. There are principally 2 types; latching and fugitive, so one could have some effects latched, and others 'flashed' with the foot. Not too difficult to assemble, and quite flexible, if you can't go down the dmx controller route. No problem switching high currents, either, as they're capable of handling more than a few spots. Here's a pic...
[attachment=188512:Tele_Rupt_12v.jpg]
Hope this helps...

[Norris]

One of the issues you may get using footswitches to switch mains voltages are loud clicks going through the pa. Old style sequencers switch at the zero crossing points of the 50hz cycle to avoid these mains spikes.

[lollington]

I'm currently at the stage of shopping around for lights for my band so I'll use this opportunity to high jack the topic to ask for advice if you don't mind?!

I'm quite keen to get a lighting rig set up which can be adjusted with a foot controller. I've seen some moonflower LED lights, lasers and some pretty sweet looking motorised LED spots which are all DMX controlled. My question is, would it be possible to programme a foot switch for solid colour or slow fades for slow tracks, and strobe effect and faster colour changes for faster songs?

Assuming this is possible I'd love to know what kind of equipment people use. At the moment we use two PAR64 cans to illuminate the band using the sound activated mode. This looks a bit pants and I'd like to get the lights looking more uniform to give a more professional feel. Anything to help disguise my playing.

[lollington]

Norris, how do you switch scenes using your Stairville? It looks like a nice bit of kit, could just be the thing that I need.

[TimR]

Really the best way to approach it is DMX with a mixer and a midi foot switch. It's expensive. Each par can is about £50, a controller about £120 and a midi foot switch another £150. But you can run whole sequences or individual scenes very easily using that method.

[TimR]

Actually things have moved on since I last looked. Foot switch and DMX controller all in one £84. I think I need one of these.
https://m.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_foot_8_dmx.htm?ref=mm_a_15

[lollington]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1428272750' post='2739897']
Actually things have moved on since I last looked. Foot switch and DMX controller all in one £84. I think I need one of these.
https://m.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_foot_8_dmx.htm?ref=mm_a_15
[/quote]

I saw this earlier, looks to be perfect. The only thing that put me off is that the strobe effect is on channel 10 and 11 and that is an 8 channel mixer. Would this mean that I wouldn't be able to have any stobe? Seems a bit daft. Not sure if this question is standard DMX related or one I'd have to ask the manufacturer.

All new to me this is! Can see why it could become GASeous to some!

[Norris]

On my Stairville there buttons to switch between banks. Each bank has 8 scenes. Each scene is a particular colour for each light. I have my 4 cans configured in pairs (2 channels) with the front pair having the same colour for 2 consecutive scenes (to reduce strobe effect). My Mini Kinta (moonflower) is on the 3rd channel. One of the banks is programmed for bright colours with the Kinta on, the other bank are dim washes with the Kinta off. I then use the sliders to control the cycle speed and cross fading, ramping it up as the gig processes until eventually switching to sound to light.

The controller can cycle through multiple banks if you want but I just use the two and switch between them. I just use the buttons on the controller. I don't really need a foot switch

[TimR]

Post a link to your DMX fixture. Do you mean Chanel 11 on your fixture is strobe? Seems odd unless it's a 16 Chanel fixture. In which case I think you can usually fiddle with addresses and fool the controller into controlling it by using channels 1-8 on one address and 9-16 on another address. I'm not totally sure about that though.