mixing desk advice digital vs Analogue

[KingPrawn]

I want to upgrade from my Yamaha desk. I'm looking at Allen & heath zed16fx or the presonus 16.0.2. I love the idea of the digital desk for its FireWire and being able to store settings. However I'm not sure if the software is a risk.

Your thoughts??

[JamesBass]

I'd probably say going digital for the size you're going for would be best. Software wise I'd hop on to the apple forums and find the logic/pro tools thread and ask in there, also check out the manufacturer forums/ reviews. I am making the assumption you're using an Apple Mac. If not then I wouldn't know where to check, but I'd assume you'll be fine!

[Skol303]

I work entirely 'in the box' myself (with software), but I've often been tempted by a ZED-R16.

They get great reviews and seem to combine the best of both worlds.

I've seen them very well priced on eBay... in fact this thread is giving me GAS... dammit, I'm outta here!

[KingPrawn]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1416345533' post='2609321']
I work entirely 'in the box' myself (with software), but I've often been tempted by a ZED-R16.

They get great reviews and seem to combine the best of both worlds.

I've seen them very well priced on eBay... in fact this thread is giving me GAS... dammit, I'm outta here!
[/quote]

can i ask, whats the transition like? what do you miss about analogue if anything?

[JTUK]

Can't help as the only time we come across digital is when we hire in and then the desks tend to be LS9's or Presonus.
They seem pretty good for multi bills as the stage engrs can Eq via phone/ipad..which is cool.

So, apart from the fact that you can store a preset mix,which good and quick if the same band/set-up runs it,
I don't know too much about them.

[molan]

I'm sure I'm just a Luddite but the only time I've used a digital desk live I absolutely hated it.

The stored presets were really useful but trying to mix live and adjust multiple things on the fly was so much more complicated than simply tweaking a few knobs.

Edit - just looked at the Zed 16fx and it has analogue controls

Edited November 19, 2014 by molan

[crez5150]

[indent=1][quote name='molan' timestamp='1416390807' post='2609599']
I'm sure I'm just a Luddite but the only time I've used a digital desk live I absolutely hated it.

The stored presets were really useful but trying to mix live and adjust multiple things on the fly was so much more complicated than simply tweaking a few knobs.

Edit - just looked at the Zed 16fx and it has analogue controls
[/quote][/indent]

[indent=1]Depends on the desk you use.... some of them have far too many layers to work through for quick/live applications. Some others such as the QU range from A&H are very much 'live' friendly... just like analogue type layout[/indent]

[Skol303]

[quote name='KingPrawn' timestamp='1416346359' post='2609333']


can i ask, whats the transition like? what do you miss about analogue if anything?
[/quote]

There was no real transition for me. The only analogue gear I've used for any length of time is an old four track recorder! I've otherwise been digital through and through.

Disclaimer: I'm not a professional engineer, just a home hobbyist.

[molan]

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1416391444' post='2609610']
[indent=1][/indent]

[indent=1]Depends on the desk you use.... some of them have far too many layers to work through for quick/live applications. Some others such as the QU range from A&H are very much 'live' friendly... just like analogue type layout[/indent]
[/quote]

Layers - that's exactly what my problem was with the Yamaha I was using. Select channel, select effect, adjust reverb, try to find levels, select bass, adjust, select mids, adjust, etc etc by which time the guitar solo you were trying to boost and clean up has finished and he next song has already started

[DaytonaRik]

Have to agree with the whole 'layer' thing - I asked our guitarist who was near our 01V desk to turn down the Aux 2 master on the weekend as it was on the point of feeding back - I just got a blank look!!! Great IF you're VERY familiar with the layout/operation but a potential nightmare if things go badly pear shaped mid-gig!!!

[Dad3353]

[size=4]It's largely a question of 'learning curve', though. If I could make the analogy..? I did the lights for ska/punk/rock group for a number of years. At first, I came across lighting consoles of various sorts, in various states of functioning, each set up for the venue. I found it easy enough to do basic stuff, but quickly found it complicated and haphazard programming the more sophisticated effects required (pulsing with a 'tap' beat, or subtle multiple cross-fades...). I opted for a laptop/software solution, spent the time working out both how it worked and what I wanted from it, and was able to arrive at any venue, patch the DMX addresses in my software, and have an almost 'hands-off' show each and every time. On the other hand, a support band wanting to use the same software was usually at a total loss as to how to pilot it.
Back to FOH consoles... Most 'standard' consoles are easy enough for the basics, but can be delicate to manage when more sophisticated actions are required (not enough hands, sometimes, or mistaking adjacent channels etc...). A digital desk, however, is very much more 'repeatable' and programmable, if, and only if, one has taken the time to become familiar with its functioning. Once mastered, they can be very powerful; much more so than an analogue desk, in the right hands. Seeing an experience 'pro' making use of a Yamaha is impressive, but he/she has spent some time learning how to use a different approach; this cannot be improvised.
Conclusion: if one has the time and motivation to adapt to the digital approach, there are great rewards. If not, a simpler, more intuitive console may give better results. If the needs are simple, don't go too sophisticated. If, however, digital is required, be prepared to go through the steps needed to master it.
Just my tuppence-worth; hope this helps.[/size]

Edited November 19, 2014 by Dad3353

[KingPrawn]

Thanks all. You raise some very good points. The reason I like the presonus is once you select the channel it opens up all other adjustments. However having a visual overview of the whole desk is much easier, which at my level and price bracket you Really only get with analogue.

Any other options other than the A&H zed16fx. What other desks should I be looking at?

[Dan Dare]

AH PA series has better eq than Zed (2 band mid) and cheaper. Mackie Onyx nice - very good mic preamps and eq. I have one. Yam digital desks good, but not keen on their analogue models.

[bassintheface]

Having relatively recently switched to digital, I just wish we'd done it sooner.
So much easier, leave presets set up, back up onto USB.
Work on mixes at home on the laptop via the audio software.
Remote mixing via iPad.

I use an x32 and they are brilliant, especially at the money.
I've used LS9's and the presonus (go for the 16.4)

Depending on what you need etc I would look at the rest of the x32 range, including the rack.

[Dad3353]

I concur, the X32 is jolly good, but it's 4 times more than the A & H, so it should be good..! They're not really comparable.

[mike257]

If part of the appeal of digital for you is the recall functionality, be wary of the Presonus. It's almost unique in the current digital market because it DOESN'T have motorised faders. This means you can recall a stored mix and although the internal processing in the desk will reflect what you've stored, the physical fader positions will not! I've just bought a relatively ancient Yamaha 01V for £200, has 12 mic channels, two stereo line channels, four aux sends for monitors, four band fully parametric EQ and dynamics processing on every channel and output, two FX units and total recall. The user interface is a bit dated now and it's old tech but at current used prices the functions per pound ratio is frankly great. People will say the preamps aren't great but if you can't get a decent mix out of it with a good band and a quality rig then you're doing it wrong! The more modern 01V96 goes for as little as £550 if you're lucky and is considerably more flexible and feature laden. The most recent iteration also has multitrack recording over USB. Unless iPad control was a dealbreaker (and there's ways of making that work, with some fiddling) then I'd take one of them over the Presonus. If you've got the budget for an Allen & Heath QU16 or something from the X32 family that'd be my choice, or hold out for the forthcoming X18R from Behringer and buy a tablet!

[EBS_freak]

Digital. Do it for the inbuilt 31band eq and effects and the multiple aux sends...

My choices for 16 channel?

QU16 for sure.

Or if you have an iPad, try the Mackie DL1608.

[Monckyman]

Agree Mackie DL1608 if you like ipads, but if so, wait for the new Behringer X-air18 as stated above, it's rrp is about £500 has the x32 engine so good eq and fx, etc, the ipad app is very easy to use, it does 18 inx18 out recording on usb and takes very little space up.I've done many shows now on my Soundcraft SI Expresion without touching the desk, and use the ipad for everything.
Using an ipad is very quick and intuitive, and there are no layers, to worry about, it's all very analogue in feel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrlSyAD-dVs
I'll be getting one for pubs and medium gigs.

[KingPrawn]

cheers gents