Neck help / advice needed

[donslow]

Hey all, long story short, I've been tinkering with bass playing for about 4 years now but starting to get serious with it now

Up until about 18 months ago I was an avid fan of ibanez sdgr basses, owned an sr800, sr300 and an sr500 mostly loving these basses because of the slim, thin, fast necks

18 months ago, I decided to sell them all and buy a precision, found a vintage modified precision with upgraded bridge, pickups, pots, wiring and machines for a reasonable price so coughed up, absolutely love the noise this thing makes but.........the neck, have been playing it 3 times a week for the last year, ish, I just can't get on with it, my playing really suffers and I really struggle with the thicker, chunkier neck, sooooooo........I'm going to upgrade the neck for something slimmer, thinner and faster but not sure what would be the best way to go, hence my asking you lovely people for advice

A lot of reading

[icastle]

I've not got a definitive answer for you, but just to let you know you're not alone, I've found similar problems with a Fender JB I sometimes use when my SR505 isn't deemed 'appropriate'.

My playing doesn't 'suffer' as such, but I do have to work a lot harder to do the same things.

[donslow]

Seems to be quite a common thing, I say my playing suffers but it's closer to yourself, it's a lot harder and I fumble around a lot more struggling with the neck, i find my hands and arms kill me after just a couple of hours whereas when I had the ibanezes, I could play all day without the slightest struggle

It's a bit of a cop out answer I know but I do have small hands and fingers which I guess is why my old basses were so much easier to play

As I say, jazz bass necks have been recommended, especially if on a tight budget the ones mentioned above, but I'm just wondering mostly if there is that much of a difference and if it would be worth the outlay

[HowieBass]

Are you certain it's just the neck that's the factor here because, although I've never owned a Ibanez, from what I know the bodies are somewhat more compact with a very different shape than that of a P bass. The VM neck on your bass (assuming it's a Squier) is 41.3mm wide at the nut (which is already a bit slimmer than a traditional P bass) whereas a Jazz comes in at about 38mm. A Jazz neck certainly does feel slimmer and it might well be just what you need - I seem to be one of those who adapts to pretty much any neck profile, string spacing and string gauge without any trouble so I can't really say if a Jazz neck will work for you; I suggest you go try one in a shop or find a fellow BCer with a Jazz bass living near where you are?

Edited November 19, 2014 by HowieBass

[hamfist]

Jazz bass neck is what you need. Should make a world of difference. I'm the same with neck width, just struggle with any nut width more than about 39mm.

Measure the width of the neck heel on your P, at it's widest point. Should hopefully be about 63.5mm (although Squiers are sometimes a bit different to the Fender std spec). A J bass neck with the same heel width "should" be pretty much a straight swap. However, there may well be some tinkering needed, like just gently widening the body's heel slot, or adding a shim under the neck heel, or maybe easing open one or more of the neck mounting holes on the body a tad. It's not difficult and adding a J neck will transform it for you IMO.
Where do you live ? If you are not confident in these things I'd be surprised if you can't find someone local willing to help you.

[donslow]

Thank you for your help and advice so far, I have only just noticed that there is a bit that I typed but hasn't gone up from my original post on this thread

Mostly, due to current budget, I have to sell or trade my spare bass head first, I have been looking at the following necks

Squier vm jazz neck
Squier cv jazz neck
Mighty mite jazz neck

Does anybody know if there is any difference between these three?! Unfortunately none of the guitar shops near me stocks many basses so I'm going in blind as it were so once again ANY help advice is GREATLY appreciated

Does anyone have any of the above necks
Is there any chance anyone might be willing to take some measurements for me just for comparisons sake maybe width and depth at 1st, 5th, 9th and 12th frets

Once again, many thanks in advance

[donslow]

Any work needing done to it I could carry out myself but worst case a friend is the local guitar tech so I'll send it round to him with a cuppa and packet of rich teas as payment if work needs doing and I get stuck

[HowieBass]

I don't think there's much, if any variation with Jazz necks (unlike Precisions), they all seem to be 38.1mm at the nut though I can't comment on thicknesses/profile further along.

[Paul S]

I have a Mighty Mite Jazz neck on my MIJ Precision and it is brilliant. I think they represent excellent value for money and are a direct fit in the neck pocket. Dimensions are about the same as the Squier necks. But none of those particular Fender necks are quite as slim as the Ibanez SR neck, which is exceptionally shallow - my old SR800 had the smallest neck I have ever owner. Of the Fenders I have had/tried only the Geddy Lee, Jaguar or Precision Lyte necks come up as shallow as an SR neck.

[zero9]

The other option is to try one of the Squier Jaguar basses, rather than mess about putting a different neck on your current bass. If you like the feel and sound of those, you could always trade your current bass, which might be a cheaper option.

[Bassassin]

I'd recommend buying another Ibanez SR and leaving the Precision where it belongs. In 1957.

Seriously, trying a J neck is probably the way to go, but it's interesting that you talk about general discomfort & fatigue when playing, as well as not getting on with the neck shape. I've had 2 SRs as well as various Precisions & P-derived basses, and they're vastly different in more than just neck dimensions.

Body shape, balance and overall weight are all factors that will be contributing to how the bass feels & plays, and you might find simply swapping the neck doesn't improve matters as much as you might expect. I'd be inclined to think you might be better looking at a lighter bass with a slim neck that gives you the sound you want, (perhaps Zero9's Squier Jag suggestion), or perhaps an older Ibanez SR with P/J pickups.

Jon.

[Hooch]

Hands are a complete mystery. Jazzes necks don't necessarily feel more comfy for small hands. You have to try to be sure.

If you dig P sound and Ibanez necks, maybe a Bob Glaub Lakland in its large but thin neck model is a nice compromise ? That's not what I'd call a fast neck, but it's only my hands.

Edited November 19, 2014 by hoochiekoochie

[brensabre79]

Here's the thing, all Precision necks are wide top to bottom, some are thin front to back, some are fat - depending on the profile.

Same with Jazz necks, although they are all thinner top to bottom than the P, as discussed, some are fat front to back, some are thin.

the Jaguar necks are supposed to be the same width as a Jazz, but a little skinnier front to back.

If you just want to swap the neck I'd recommend the Squier VM Jazz neck definitely. I've got one (Mk 1) on my P-Bass for the same reason as you, and they are pretty slick. Not sure about the mighty mite ones, if it's anything like an AllParts Jazz neck it'll be pretty fat front to back compared to the Ibby's.

But if you do that, you'll be left with a P neck, and a bass that has been severely modified which may make it more difficult to sell on... although you can change it back easily - you'll still have bought a neck.

As mentioned above, you can pick up a Squier Jaguar with P & J pickup combo for not too much money - especially if you trade in the P as is. There you'll have the best of both in terms of skinny neck, P sound with the added bonus of a bridge pickup

[hamfist]

Just another point to mention when Fender neck swapping, as the width of the neck heels and body heel slots does vary a bit ..... so long as you are swapping like for like, in terms of scale length and fret numbers, the neck will be fine so long as the neck heel actually fits in the neck slot (check heel shape too, as 50's style necks have a squarer heel profile ... it's very obvious). If the heel slot in the body is a bit too wide, the only difference is cosmetic, it makes absolutely zero difference to tone. I have swapped several dozen Fender and Fender-type necks on different bodies and that is my opinion.
If the body's heel slot is a fraction too narrow then with a bit of careful sanding you can ease it open just enough to fit a new neck.

One more note on neck profiles...... Mighty Mite necks are pretty slim front to back. Allparts are very chunky. They all have the 38mm nut.

Edited November 19, 2014 by hamfist

[Acebassmusic]

Here's an alternative thought.....whats your technique like? How high / low do you sling your bass? I have found from experience that doing this bit "wrong" can seriously affect the amount of effort needed and reduces your playing time. When I first started bass (4 string) I hooked my thumb over the top of the fret board which stiffened my hand / wrist / arm and made playing difficult. As you like your current bass, maybe its worth having someone look at the way you play before modding your bass? Just my 2p I hope you find a solution soon.

[donslow]

Gentlemen (and ladies?!) I can't thank you enough for your help and advice this far

i had never thought of jaguar bass necks before so will certainly look at that, I think a vm jazz neck could be a good call, sounds like it'll be the skinnier / slimmer option without getting down to ibanez spec, long and short if it, I just want something, even marginally smaller, than the precision neck I have currently so thank you for the suggestions

In terms of how I play, how low I hang my guitar etc I have tried my guitar at different heights all the way from my belt line to mid chest and it's still the same result, I did ask a bass tutor I know to come and watch a band practice with me once to potentially tear my technique apart but he couldn't find anything especially wrong with it that would cause the aggro I'm having, he was the one that suggested a new neck, he did suggest that I was having trouble stretching over three or four frets at the top end of the neck eg from second fret to four or five, to which he would've suggested trying the thumb on the back of the neck way of playing but it's something I already do

As mentioned about getting a p/j ibanez, my old sr800 had that but I just couldn't get a tone out of it I liked hence the switch to precision which gets me exactly where I want to be tone wise

Again ladies?! And gents, thank you ever so much for your help and advice, keep it coming, it's all good stuff

Edited November 19, 2014 by donslow

[donslow]

After re-reading all your comments I think the main suggestions for a smaller neck, front to back and top to bottom the suggestions are as follows

Vm jazz
Jaguar bass
Mighty mite jazz

As there SHOULDNT be much difference between the three but all smaller than a precision neck, have I got that right or have I completely misunderstood?

[Hooch]

Are you sure your hands will feel comfy on a jazz neck ? Short story. My girlfriend plays the bass time to time, but she's a beginner and it's not easy for her to find a proper shape comfy for her small hands. I made her having a try on every basses I got and the result was quite surprising. She can't stand neither jazzes neck nor B shape, but the C shape and especially the fat neck (46 mm at the nut) of my (now hers) Bob Glaub sig Lakland is ok with her.

Hands are something really personal, I'm afraid their efficiency on this or that type of neck is completely unpredictible.

Edited November 20, 2014 by hoochiekoochie

[xilddx]

[quote name='donslow' timestamp='1416360731' post='2609468']
Hey all, long story short, I've been tinkering with bass playing for about 4 years now but starting to get serious with it now

Up until about 18 months ago I was an avid fan of ibanez sdgr basses, owned an sr800, sr300 and an sr500 mostly loving these basses because of the slim, thin, fast necks

18 months ago, I decided to sell them all and buy a precision, found a vintage modified precision with upgraded bridge, pickups, pots, wiring and machines for a reasonable price so coughed up, absolutely love the noise this thing makes but.........the neck, have been playing it 3 times a week for the last year, ish, I just can't get on with it, my playing really suffers and I really struggle with the thicker, chunkier neck, sooooooo........I'm going to upgrade the neck for something slimmer, thinner and faster but not sure what would be the best way to go, hence my asking you lovely people for advice

A lot of reading
[/quote]

Don't make the same mistake twice. Go out and try a big ol bunch of basses in a shop. It's the only way.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

If an Ibanez SR is a really good overall ergonomic package for you, maybe it would be a better idea to investigate changing the pickups in an Ibby rather than trying to make a Fender work for you - IME you always have to play around the ergonomic shortcomings of Fenders, but other manufacturers have taken Leo's basic concept and refined it, to make the instrument more friendly to the musician.

If you find that one make/model from a particular manufacturer works really well for your particular body mechanics, then it makes really good sense to stick with it - playing a gig is the equivalent for your fingers and tendons of running a half marathon, I'll bet that no-one would want to walk more than a few steps in badly fitting and uncomfortable shoes, so why would subjecting the joints and tendons in your hands to unnecessary stress be a good idea?

Maybe the question you should be asking is why didn't the SR800 with P/J get you to the sonic ballpark you wanted to be in - perhaps it was the pickups and active circuitry, and you could have got the sound you wanted by swapping out the electronics for a passive setup.

[donslow]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1416471070' post='2610451']
If an Ibanez SR is a really good overall ergonomic package for you, maybe it would be a better idea to investigate changing the pickups in an Ibby rather than trying to make a Fender work for you - IME you always have to play around the ergonomic shortcomings of Fenders, but other manufacturers have taken Leo's basic concept and refined it, to make the instrument more friendly to the musician.

If you find that one make/model from a particular manufacturer works really well for your particular body mechanics, then it makes really good sense to stick with it - playing a gig is the equivalent for your fingers and tendons of running a half marathon, I'll bet that no-one would want to walk more than a few steps in badly fitting and uncomfortable shoes, so why would subjecting the joints and tendons in your hands to unnecessary stress be a good idea?

Maybe the question you should be asking is why didn't the SR800 with P/J get you to the sonic ballpark you wanted to be in - perhaps it was the pickups and active circuitry, and you could have got the sound you wanted by swapping out the electronics for a passive setup.
[/quote]

Fantastic suggestion and I thank you for your time in replying, changing ibanez circuitry and pickups was something I did look at, I put a thread up on here (i think) asking people's opinion on the matter in regards to getting p bass sound with fender pickups in the sr800, the general advice I got was that the p bass sound wouldn't come out of an Ibanez regardless of pickup choice due to the size of the bodies and necks etc

Shoot myself in the foot a little I thought, right, precision it is, admittedly taking a gamble on selling all mine for one, and here I am, looking for a new neck hahaha

Hindsight will tell me maybe I was a little hasty but gosh darn, the sound out of my bass now, to my ears, is to die for

[donslow]

Spare bass head sold, someone stop me before I go crazy and buy a precision bass.......ah........hang on a minute........

Once again, thank you for all your advice, you have been brilliant

So, neck choice for me has been whittled down to
Vm jazz neck
Squier jag neck
Mighty mite jazz neck

Given my requirements, or at least what I'm after, who would pick what over what and why?

Thank you all again

[brensabre79]

There's a VM Jazz on [url="http://www.gumtree.com/p/guitar-instrument/fender-squier-jazz-bass-black.-mint-condition/1089775144?fb_ref=Default&fb_source=message"]Gumtree[/url] for £95 right now, not sure where you're based but the neck alone is worth that and you can sell the body and hardware...

Grab it QUICK before it's gone