Insurance warning if you keep your equipment in a vehicle in a garage.

[coffee_king]

Hi All
I recently took out equipment insurance for all my musical gear.

My gear was stored in my locked van, in a locked garage at my home address.

I purposely bought a van to store my gear in as it was getting too much to have to load it in and out of the house before/after every gig. Makes sense doesn’t it.

After a lot of back and forth with my insurance company (Music Guard) they tell me that my van can NOT be used to store the equipment in permanently and therefore it is NOT insured if I do so....Even though the van is in my garage.

The equipment IS insured when stored in my garage though, as long as it is NOT in the van.

Why? Well they say that there is more of a chance that the ENTIRE lot of my equipment would be stolen if I kept it in my van. So thieves would steal the van with ALL the equipment in rather than stealing as much as they could run/drive away with.

Also it’s worth pointing out that any IEC/XLR/Guitar cables etc under £30 are also not covered.
Probably like some people out there I have way over £1000 worth of cables, so if all of these get stolen I will be £1000+ out of pocket.

I’m sure some of you know this already, but I thought it was worth advising any that don’t realise such things.
(Sorry if this is in the wrong forum I couldn’t see anywhere else more relevant to post it).

Cheers

[charic]

I think endsleigh cover equipment in vehicles as long as it isn't visible. Might be worth a look?

[Sibob]

Yeah I've heard a lot of stories about Music Guard using every excuse to not pay out.

Si

[discreet]

So if you keep your gear in the garage but not in the van, and you keep your van in the garage too, what's to stop a thief just loading the van with your gear and driving off in it? OK, it would take a minute or two to load the van, but...

Edited November 20, 2014 by discreet

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1416481038' post='2610571']
So if you keep your gear in the garage but not in the van, and you keep your van in the garage too, what's to stop a thief just loading the van with your gear and driving off in it? OK, it would take a minute or two to load the van, but...
[/quote]

Actually, I can see the insurance company's point here. If all your gear is in your van, it's packaged up and ready for transit. They just need your keys, and they're off. As the OP has admitted in his own post, loading and unloading is a lot of hassle, and that probably acts as a deterrent to a lazy thief.

S.P.

[discreet]

[quote name='Stylon Pilson' timestamp='1416481368' post='2610583']
As the OP has admitted in his own post, loading and unloading is a lot of hassle, and that probably acts as a deterrent to a lazy thief.
[/quote]

Quite possibly. Though I'd be reluctant to store gear in a van/garage in the first place for environmental reasons. I don't mean to save the planet or anything, but because of damp/dust/humidity/temperature changes etc. etc.

[charic]

At the same time though, if the stuff is in the garage and the thief has come with a van they can just steal his stuff without trying to break into the van. Also if it was in the van they wouldn't know anything is in there.

[Stylon Pilson]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1416481847' post='2610594']
At the same time though, if the stuff is in the garage and the thief has come with a van they can just steal his stuff without trying to break into the van.[/quote]

Yes, but lugging all the stuff out and transferring it into their van will make a lot of noise and disturbance which increases the chance that someone will catch them at it.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1416481847' post='2610594']Also if it was in the van they wouldn't know anything is in there.
[/quote]

True, unless they'd done a bit of research.

S.P.

[Jakester]

Complain to the Ombudsman. If it's covered in the garage, and the van is in the garage, then I think it's an unfair distinction and the FOS may well agree.

Jake (reasonably experienced insurance lawyer)

[72deluxe]

Thanks for the info. Good idea about the van, pity they wouldn't insure it as it IS in the garage (albeit in a speedy getaway van). I hate lugging heavy gear around (hurray for lightweight class D amps).

Other than Music Guard and Endsleigh, can anyone recommend anyone else?

Without giving all details away about your gear, does it work out fairly reasonable?

[CamdenRob]

I really need to look into some proper insurance for my gear... pretty sure it won't be covered under my house insurance policy when I'm out and about gigging etc.

Edited November 20, 2014 by CamdenRob

[Hector]

Why not change insurer? You pay them for a service, and they service they give doesn't satisfy you.


p.s. I use Allianz but can't recommend them as I've never had to claim. I do think they're pretty reasonable though.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Hector

[flyfisher]

I've never bothered looking into it because I don't really care about insuring my gear when away from the house, but I wonder if it would be covered under the "all risks" cover as long as it's not being used for commercial purposes?

My household policy has something like £10k all risks cover and only individual items over £1500 have to be specified. So I don't really see why a bass & amp should be any different to my DSLR & lenses. They are both personal possessions that I use outside the house for my own personal use for no commercial gain.

On the 'van in the garage' scenario, the other concern is that cars are increasingly difficult to steal these days without the keys and thieves will often break into the house to steal the car keys. Many car policies will not cover theft unless the car is broken into (same with houses usually). So what happens if someone breaks into a house, steals the car keys and then steals the car. The house policy doesn't cover the car so will only pay out for the broken window and stolen keys and the car policy will not cover the car being taken because the keys have been used.

[Skol303]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1416482651' post='2610612']
I really need to look into some proper insurance for my gear... pretty sure it won't be covered under my house insurance policy when I'm out and about gigging etc.
[/quote]

I'm with Direct Line (Home Plus I think it's called) and that covers me for up to £4K per individual item (unspecified, with a maximum total claim of £50K I think), including instruments.

However... instruments [u]aren't[/u] covered if they're used for a commercial purpose. Nor are other items - that would require a separate business insurance policy. So if you're earning money from gigging, session work or whatever, then your instruments aren't covered by home insurance. At least that's the case with Direct Line, but I think it applies to the vast majority of home insurance policies.

So you'd better get that Wal of yours insured if you're showing off with it down the local for beer money!

PS: the advice I've had from a friend who works in insurance is to look into how each company deals with claims. There are plenty of cheap options out there, but the cheapest ones tend to fight paying out with tooth and claw. Some of the bigger names are more expensive, but they tend to pay out with less hassle when you need them to - which IMO is what you want to be paying for with insurance cover.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Skol303

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1416485745' post='2610658']
I'm with Direct Line (Home Plus I think it's called) and that covers me for up to £4K per individual item (unspecified, with a maximum total claim of £50K I think), including instruments.

However... instruments [u]aren't[/u] covered if they're used for a commercial purpose. Nor are other items - that would require a separate business insurance policy. So if you're earning money from gigging, session work or whatever, then your instruments aren't covered by home insurance. At least that's the case with Direct Line, but I think it applies to the vast majority of home insurance policies.

So you'd better get that Wal of yours insured if you're showing off with it down the local for beer money!

PS: the advice I've had from a friend who works in insurance is to look into how each company deals with claims. There are plenty of cheap options out there, but the cheapest ones tend to fight paying out with tooth and claw. Some of the bigger names are more expensive, but they tend to pay out with less hassle when you need them to - which IMO is what you want to be paying for with insurance cover.
[/quote]

Thanks for that, that's very helpful actually as I have exactly the same policy with Directline.. same limits and everything.

Better get myself some proper cover I think. I guess playing gigs is a bit of a grey area where I'd be covered if I didn't receive any fee, but if we did end up getting a few quid I wouldn't be covered... maybe I'll give them a call, it would be handy to know if i'm covered at rehearsal studios etc.

[Matt P]

i also use Allianz, i haven't made a claim but when it came to updating the items covered theree is no admin fee, they just adjust any monthly payments left to cover it.

I went with Allianz as they didn't require serial numbers for everything, my Letts 5 string is totally unique and would be incredibly easy to identify but because there wasn't a serial number some of the insurance companies wouldn't cover it.

i got my insurance just before the first paid gig with my and, we phoned up our broker (the AA) and just asked if i was covered for paid gigs and when they checked with the actual insurer they cancelled our policy, aparently that made me a part time musician which they didn't cover so we had 7 days to get new insurance, the AA were really good about it and actually got us a better deal with another company which saved us £80.

Matt

[Skol303]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1416486300' post='2610675']


Thanks for that, that's very helpful actually as I have exactly the same policy with Directline.. same limits and everything.

Better get myself some proper cover I think. I guess playing gigs is a bit of a grey area where I'd be covered if I didn't receive any fee, but if we did end up getting a few quid I wouldn't be covered... maybe I'll give them a call, it would be handy to know if i'm covered at rehearsal studios etc.
[/quote]

No problem Rob.

I had a long to and fro with Direct Line over this when we moved house. I wanted to make sure that my gear was fully covered by the policy whilst at home (it was), despite them not wanting a list of individual items.

I asked them to clarify their policy in writing - as some insurers get a bit vague over things like musical instruments, jewelry, works of art, etc - and received a letter confirming the cover, but drawing attention to the clause about it not extending to 'items for business use' (or some such).

So in short: yes, I'd strongly recommend you get a policy specific to paying gigs.

Paul

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1416490871' post='2610771']
No problem Rob.

I had a long to and fro with Direct Line over this when we moved house. I wanted to make sure that my gear was fully covered by the policy whilst at home (it was), despite them not wanting a list of individual items.

I asked them to clarify their policy in writing - as some insurers get a bit vague over things like musical instruments, jewelry, works of art, etc - and received a letter confirming the cover, but drawing attention to the clause about it not extending to 'items for business use' (or some such).

So in short: yes, I'd strongly recommend you get a policy specific to paying gigs.

Paul
[/quote]

Thanks Paul, much appreciated.

So I guess the question is... Anyone have cover for paying gigs, had something nicked and successfully made a claim? If yes... who was it and where do I sign up?

[chris_b]

If the gear is in the van and the van is disabled; ie clamped, and in the garage, is the gear covered then?

[Truckstop]

Why don't you just say that your gear's in the garage? Which it is. The fact that the thieves have stolen the van too makes no difference!

Truckstop

[coffee_king]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1416493047' post='2610811']
If the gear is in the van and the van is disabled; ie clamped, and in the garage, is the gear covered then?
[/quote]
No, even though my Garage door has two locks, the side door has a 5 lever mortice British Standard lock on it. The van has a steering lock (Like all cars), but I also bought a Thatcham Cat 3 approved Stoplock (£50) for it and 95% of the time there is a car parked up to as close to the front of the garage door as you can get so there is no way you could gain entry (while the car is there) and take ANYTHING out of the van or the garage.....unless you stole/moved the car first.
Also 5 houses look directly at my garage and I have a security light on both the front and side of the garage.

[wateroftyne]

SHAZAM!

http://www.newmooninsurance.com/musical/

[Skol303]

[quote name='coffee_king' timestamp='1416494264' post='2610839']
No, even though my Garage door has two locks, the side door has a 5 lever mortice British Standard lock on it. The van has a steering lock (Like all cars), but I also bought a Thatcham Cat 3 approved Stoplock (£50) for it and 95% of the time there is a car parked up to as close to the front of the garage door as you can get so there is no way you could gain entry (while the car is there) and take ANYTHING out of the van or the garage.....unless you stole/moved the car first.
Also 5 houses look directly at my garage and I have a security light on both the front and side of the garage.
[/quote]

The trouble is, insurance companies aren't like bookies - they're usually unwilling to work out the odds of an individual's stuff being stolen/damaged, based on their unique circumstances, and then write a policy to suit. Or at least they're not willing to do this at a price most of us would be willing to pay.

They work on a ‘one size fits most’ approach, which is cost-effective for them at the detriment of it sometimes being frustrating for us!

But… those steps you’ve taken [u]are[/u] going to help safeguard your gear, so it’s not a wasted effort. Better it doesn't get nicked at all

[Dad3353]

[quote name='coffee_king' timestamp='1416494264' post='2610839']
No, even though my Garage door has two locks, the side door has a 5 lever mortice British Standard lock on it. The van has a steering lock (Like all cars), but I also bought a Thatcham Cat 3 approved Stoplock (£50) for it and 95% of the time there is a car parked up to as close to the front of the garage door as you can get so there is no way you could gain entry (while the car is there) and take ANYTHING out of the van or the garage.....unless you stole/moved the car first.
Also 5 houses look directly at my garage and I have a security light on both the front and side of the garage.
[/quote]

So why insure it..? No-one's going to nick it. [size=4] [/size]

[size=4](Just kidding. No malice intended... )[/size]

[chris_b]

You're storing your gear in Fort Knox!

Looks like any insurance would be superfluous.