Dealing with repetitive themes.

[lowdown]

I don't know about you lot, but I do get stumped sometimes on building a repeating theme/motif/tune.
(to much/to little/fill all gaps, is it really finished, nah, I will just add some more, mix goes to pot, start again or bin it)
I suppose this is where a good knowledge of orchestrating comes in,
or at least being creative, with ideas to build without over exaggerating and getting carried away.

I think composer Nick Murray hit the spot with this Disney Trailer for Cinderella.
Not the most complex arrangement, but little interchanges going on that seem to really lift the arrangement.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dKj7xD5gec&feature=youtu.be[/media]

Edited November 21, 2014 by lowdown

[Drax]

Yeah great point. It's a bit like cooking - if the raw ingredients are high enough quality - ie those thick, lush live strings - you can get away with a much simpler recipe. I've found since I've started writing with a partner, whose production knowledge is way above mine, I've been able to get away with fewer 'ingredients' in the mix, as each one works better / harder.

On a related note, there's a fantastic book on Arranging by Richard Niles which I'm currently devouring [url="http://richardniles.com/the-invisible-artist/"]http://richardniles....visible-artist/[/url]

Edited November 21, 2014 by DanR

[Bilbo]

Thematic development is a real art form and there are so many options available if you start to think about it and investigate it. My earliest substantial memory of music was hearing Ravel’s Bolero which is really only a very short theme re-orchestrated a couple of dozen ways as it builds (and it builds because it is orchestrated in several different ways). One of my recent Basschat composition challenge entries was a tunes called ‘Salome’ which was written with this kind of thematic development in mind: It sort of went:

Theme One
Theme One by new instrument plus first counterpoint by first instrument
Theme by new instrument, first counterpoint by second instrument, second counterpoint by first instrument and so on (I think there is a fourth counterpoint as well but I think one of the others is dropped before it appears).

Counterpoint is another area which I think is under utilised. It is marvellous what you can achieve when you invest time and thought into these areas of composition. The Jazz rhythm section and soloist approach is very limiting and a lot of popular music is only really a variation on that; drums, bass plays bass line, guitar/keyboards play chords/riffs, horns/voice on top.

My biggest epiphany as a result of these composition challenges has been the recognition that ‘composition chops’, like playing chops, is improved with practice and that there is a LOT to be said for taking time to think and plan and work on your pieces in depth. A lot of the great classical composers took years to write their greatest pieces. We expect to sit down with a guitar and come up with something beautiful in a couple of hours. It can happen (I understand that ‘He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother’ was written that way) but, as the saying goes, it’s mostly 1% inspiration or 99% perspiration. I have a couple of friends who are professional composers and they talk about writing ‘7 minutes a day’. They call it factory work. It’s a skill like any other and improves with usage!!

[Earbrass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1416571011' post='2611530']
I have a couple of friends who are professional composers and they talk about writing ‘7 minutes a day’. They call it factory work.
[/quote]

That's be a British Leyland factory, then .

(oh, wait, you mean writing 7 minutes of music per day....not writing for 7 minutes per day..... )

Edited November 21, 2014 by Earbrass

[Skol303]

[size=4]Interesting thread Garry![/size]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]Like Bilbo I have a lot of fun with the monthly composition challenges, but strictly speaking my ‘compositional chops’ are severely lacking and I tend to rely on a few well worn formulae for the bulk of my music. Not that I’m unhappy with that - it’s just a limitation that I’m aware of.[/size][/size][/font]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]I like to think I can occasionally conjur a catchy ‘ear worm’, but there’s really little method behind my approach to writing music - and that’s something I hope to work on next year with some music lessons (our new neighbour is a former music teacher - very serendipitous!).[/size][/size][/font]
[font=Helvetica][size=3]
[size=4]Repetitive themes actually feature strongly in a lot of the music I listen to and produce (e.g. electronic dance music), so I could no doubt learn a useful thing or two from this topic [/size][/size][/font]

[Dad3353]

[size=4]This ...

[url="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B1IDD-bSs95pZjVlMmVjY2EtZGEyNi00OGRiLWJmZjktZDBhZjE3MGNkNzEx/edit"]William Russo: Composing Music, a New Approach ...[/url]

... is worth a look. It takes a successive, pedagogic approach. The early pages can be skimmed over, but there's a lot even there to help analyse and organise one's train of thought.
Recommended.[/size]

[size=4]A decent enough read here, too ...[/size]

[size=4][url="http://www.dolmetsch.com/form.pdf"]Alan Belkin: A Practical Guide to Musical Composition ...[/url][/size]

[size=4]... although somewhat more 'dry', it's succinct enough to not become laborious. Brief, practical explanation, with references to examples.[/size]
[size=4]Not bad at all.[/size]

Edited November 21, 2014 by Dad3353