philsimmonds Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Im just intreeged to here other bassists approaches to jazz improvisation, i know thats a bit of a blaaahzay question... but still... but use of phrases, arpeggios, scales, modes... whether your approach is rediculus amounts of notes, or hardly any at all... this may seem like a pointless topic, but its cool to know how bassists differ in approach, Peace x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Was it stanley clarke who once said learn all you can and then forget it and go with your heart? I know the theory but I haven't put it into practice so I'm not even anywhere near forgetting it all yet. I can technically solo over chord changes in some jazz standards but I haven't mastered making it mean something yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I tend to get all flustered, play anything that falls under my fingers and hope no-one notices :blush: Hoping to get some lessons to sort me out, innit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassjamm Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 [quote name='Merton' post='255471' date='Aug 5 2008, 03:27 PM']I tend to get all flustered, play anything that falls under my fingers and hope no-one notices :blush:[/quote] That's how i started out i guess, not that i've progressed much beyound this. Having spent a lot of time recenly watching different videos and reading different things from most of the top players, something that stands out to me is the need to transcribe things that we feel something for. So if we hear a wicked groove that we like, learn it, drum it in, figure out why it's so cool and then mess with it until it's drummed in. Then forget about it and in time it will come out in your playing but be you. The same applies for any solos we hear, sax lines, chord sequences, horn harmonies, motifs etc...anything that makes you think 'that sounds wicked'...learn it!!! I'm trying to do this a lot at the moment, so rather than learn a whole solo, i'm working away at the bits i think sound coolest, then going from there. I've also come to realised that jammin' is seriously essential. Just learning to communicate with other players, not just that, but jammin' along to CD's, with the pro's!!! It's a tedious approach to begin with, but when you get in the zone with it and become immersed in the track it sounds amazing! This is something i'm trying to do more of. Victor Wooten is very much into this method, learning to talk Music by jammin' with the pro's, much like we learn to speak our native tongue at birth by 'jammin' with the pros around us. I guess in time, your ears become accustomed to hearing what will work or not, even if that means playing a note you wouldn't normally, the often work, but i think it's learning how to play the 'wrong' notes with the cofidence and finesse to make them sound right...something like that anyway! I'm quickly realising that there is a huge need for me to learn more melodies though in order to sound more melodic in my playing!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Its a language like any other. You need to immerse yourself in it. Learn all the scales, in thirds, fourths, fifths, sixths and sevenths, in all keys. Learn chordal harmony. Actively listen to as much music as you can. Transcribe everything you can; horns particularly. Listen closely to the the other instruments and DON'T just listen to the bass. Over a period of time, you will start to recognise things, get bored of things, learn to love things, embrace things, dismiss things, improve things, neglect things - all of this will come together in your own personal voice as an improviser. Eventually, as someone just said, you just forget the technical details and just make beautiful music but that's kind of not true. It's like language - you go to school to learn the techniques but you don't really think about them when you speak or write. But, if some prat want to split hairs about your spelling , you need to be ready to blow them out of the water with some epistemological hyperbole. Knowledge is power, but so is electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I think the spelling correction post is a bit off the topic to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) I assume that we're talking about improv in a solo sense, i.e. not necessarily/only holding down the groove. When I improvise I work on shape, feel, tension/resolution and coaxing melody out of these qualities. - By shape I mean the general 'flow' of the improv, i.e. not just limited to the notes/pitches I'm playing, but the intensity, the dynamics, the techniques, the tone, etc. Essentially making it 'read' well. - By feel I mean incorporation of different styles/genres, rhythms, emphasised note choices (or lack of note choices), scales, key centres (or lack of). I try to give the improv 'life' this way. - Tension/resolution I think everyone knows about; trying to find new ways of creating tension and creatively resolving it, or perhaps dragging it out? Who knows? I try to keep the improv 'interesting' the whole way through this way. - And I try to tie it all together by crafting melodies out of the improvisation. That's always subjective and up to the musician, but I try to pay attention to what I'm playing and when something leaps out at me, make an effort to get on the back of that and pursue it. Bilbo is right about theory/transcription/...etc , none of this would be possible to anywhere near the same degree without those bits of background info. They help provide a solid base on which to improvise and figure out where you wish for your improvs to go. I will say that I don't think about it constantly, but I had to do so initially, and still switch on my mind when I play certain things. Mark P.S. Sorry if the above sounds pretentious (I hate that), but I know no better way to explain how I go about it. Edited August 7, 2008 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 [quote name='Shaun' post='257064' date='Aug 7 2008, 11:37 AM']I think the spelling correction post is a bit off the topic to be honest.[/quote] Deleted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 [quote name='bassjamm' post='255870' date='Aug 5 2008, 11:06 PM']That's how i started out i guess, not that i've progressed much beyound this. Having spent a lot of time..............[/quote] I'm not going to quote the whole thing, because I just wanted to say, what a great, inspiring post that was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 [quote name='Galilee' post='257129' date='Aug 7 2008, 12:43 PM']I'm not going to quote the whole thing, because I just wanted to say, what a great, inspiring post that was![/quote] Aye! And to Bilbo and mcgraham too, cheers for your input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Nah, bilbo and mcgraham's posts were sh*t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 I thought so too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galilee Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 Unmitigated drivel.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cernael Posted August 7, 2008 Share Posted August 7, 2008 (edited) I seem to recall a someone suggesting that, to make a bass solo stand out a bit, you could just do arpeggios based on the chords in the song, but shifted one fifth higher. So, during a standard Dm7>G7>Cmaj7, you'd do arpeggios on Am7, D7 and Gmaj7 respectively. The idea being that this way, you stress non root notes, thus standing out a bit more in the mix, even if you stay in the lower 12 frets or so. This seems to take as granted that you improvise the grooves based on the chords anyway... Am7 over Dm7: 5th, m7th, 9th, and 11th. D7 over G7: 5th, maj7th, 9th, and and 11th. Gmaj7 over Cmaj7: 5th, maj7th, 9th, #11th. OK, that might not work too well. Maybe if you stay in the scale? Use Am7, Dm7 and G7? Meh, I'm just talking out of my ass anyway. Edited August 7, 2008 by Cernael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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