DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) I bought a second hand Overwater Tanglewood Aspiration Elite 4 for £250 today, and although it is at the budget end of the Overwater spectrum I can live with knowing it has sufficient Overwater DNA to look, feel and play the part - at least for my purposes, but here is the (potential) issue. Something is not ringing true about the guitar. Now let me be absolutely clear from the outset - the guy selling the guitar was 100% genuine, he was up for a chat and seemed genuinely interested in discussing bass guitars and players per se, I visited his house for a 'try before you buy' session, his partner was there, and it was all good. However the guitar looks like it has been modified and I don't know how to check the serial number - so I am now starting think "What exactly have I bought here?" Serial Number: L11080711 - but how/where online do I check? Pics attached. Note the neck is not flush with the body. It looks like a slice of wood has been inserted to raise the neck and this has also raised the section next to the first p'up. Is this something you have seen before? Is there a logical reason for it? Should I get it taken out? Should I get out more myself and stop worrying about such matters?....... At the end of the day, even if I have been sold a pup, the bass looks, feels and plays very well indeed. I simply post this to get a bit of clarification as to what I have actually purchased! What are your thoughts? David Edited November 23, 2014 by DavidMcKay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) The answer is [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/245885-overwater-by-tangelwood-aspiration-elite-4-string-fretless/"]here[/url] on an older sale thread on BassChat which advertises what seems to be exactly the bass you have just bought. At the time the seller said in his ad: [quote] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]It’s in excellent condition, no dings or scratchy pots, but has a couple of issues which I’ll point out below.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]There is a flaw in the fretboard which I took as being a factory filled knot - it does not affect playing in the slightest. The other issue is the pretty big wooden shim under the heel. This was put in by a local luthier, because I wanted the action lower, and although it looks ugly, did not affect the tone of the bass at all. I could have sent it back to Chris at Overwater, but decided against it because of the time and hassle.[/font][/color] [/quote] Looking at the pics - there's the knot, there's the shim. By weird coincidence it's the same bass you've just bought. So now you know! Edited November 22, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBus Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Looks like someone has put in a shim. Whoever it was has been sensible and filled the whole neck pocket with that piece of wood. Quite a common job. Generally it allows you to get a much lower action. However, the action on your bass looks higher than the Tyne Bridge. I would take that to a luthier/tech and have a good setup done. That will make a good bass even better. EDIT: Skank beet me to it. Edited November 22, 2014 by BassBus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 The neck has been shimmed to improve the action, it looks to be a good job. This may have happened if the bass was de-fretted to improve playability? The only downside (and it would annoy me) is the fact that the neck extension is not flush and on the same plane as the body...but a half decent luthier would be able to sort that for a small sum of cash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Yep - the bloody thing is annoying me already! So how do I check the provenance via the serial number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 I also note that current elites have a through-neck construction where as this is a bolt-on. It all seems a bit of a mixed pedigree for something that should be straightforward. Is this an early Overwater/Tanglewood collaboration? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1416690067' post='2612732'] So how do I check the provenance via the serial number? [/quote] The only information you can get is a year and month of manufacture - August 2011 in your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I have to say that it seems blatantly obvious to me that this is a genuine Tanglewood Overwater. If you don't like the by-product of the shim you have two options - have the protruding neck extension planed to match the body, or have the shim routered out and the instrument returned to factory originality. Easy peasy jobs for a decent luthier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 White Cloud Which of these two options would you go for? And why? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1416690808' post='2612739'] I have to say that it seems blatantly obvious to me that this is a genuine Tanglewood Overwater. [/quote] Quite so. Like I said above - the previous seller of [i]exactly the same actual bass[/i] the OP has just bought (presumably from someone else) explained in his sale thread why he had the neck shimmed in the first place. Though God only knows why. Don't Tanglewood Overwaters have height adjustable bridges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Skank It is only now that I am focusing on your interests. Are you interested in these on others or is this a personal picadilo that you favour for yourself? Not judging - simply asking! Anyways - the serial number........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1416691250' post='2612747'] White Cloud Which of these two options would you go for? And why? David [/quote] Well, as Skankdelvar has said it is a bit odd that the shim has been added....but it is not an uncommon adaptation on bolt on neck basses. I bought a used Dean Jeff Berlin bass a few years ago and it had an almost identical shim. I removed it and the bass was easy to set up perfectly well without it. I would probably remove the shim - but it is subjective. You own the bass and are best placed to decide whether or not you like the playability as is. Be assured though...this is no big deal in the scheme of things. It is a lovely looking instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I'd bet the shim is just held in place by the neck/screws so could be easily removed but you'd then probably ruin the action. As others have said it's been done well. Are the saddles near to the end of their height adjustment, in other words almost bottoming out? I bought a second hand Tanglewood (Cort) Curbow 5 and had to insert a full pocket shim to get the action down to an acceptable level for the G and B strings because the saddles wouldn't go any lower (the shim I put in hasn't compromised the neck to body joint rigidity). If the saddles won't go any lower then you need the shim to raise the neck. As others have said a luthier could plane the end of the neck to match the body or perhaps rout a shallow inset for the bridge allowing you to remove the shim and then be able to use the saddle height adjustment screws as usual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1416691747' post='2612755'] Skank It is only now that I am focusing on your interests. Are you interested in these on others or is this a personal picadilo that you favour for yourself? [/quote] Just that there's a small school of thought that suggests that shims (though not whole pocket shims which I suppose aren't really shims as we usually think of them) improve 'tonal voodoo' by necessitating a sharper break angle over the saddles on 'vintage Fender-type bridges and similar. Others believe that a bit of back angle changes the geometry and 'improves' playability. Nash Guitars claim to shim all their necks (with a plectrum) for similar reasons. So, to shim or not to shim? Some of mine are shimmed, others aren't but only for practical reasons of set-up rather than any great tonal enhancement. Either way, it looks like a very nice bass for not a whole lot of money. Enjoy! Edited November 22, 2014 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Skank, I think he was referring to the "Frills, gussets, elastic" that you're into... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slumjacket Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 You can always email Overwater. I have an old 80s Overwater and emailed them about it; very helpful. I know it's one of the Tanglewood models, but they could probably help with the serial number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1416693102' post='2612773'] Skank, I think he was referring to the "Frills, gussets, elastic" that you're into... [/quote] Oh, [i]that[/i]. You can shim a gusset, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Thanks all. I'm heading towards a factory reset, back to originals, rather than keeping the shim in place and working around it. As for 'lowering the action' - I haven't been got on hand shaking terms with 'the action', so I guess all I want at this stage is to have a good starter for ten, no frills, no fancy set-ups, just a basic set-up to learn from and modify in the future if necessary. Any good luthiers n Glasgow you'd care to recommend for the job? Cheers, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Anybody from Kenny's Music, Glasgow here that can offer a position?..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 funninily enough I highly recommend Jimmy Moon @ Moon guitars in Glasgow. He is my no1 go to for this type of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 White Cloud Thanks for the steer. I've always felt word of mouth to be a far better barometer of quality and value for money than any other form of advertising so I'll take it to Jimmy Moon then. It is funny though, rather than being pissed off at having to spend extra money on a new purchase, I am starting to see it as an investment in a quality piece of kit. Cheers, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1416691747' post='2612755'] Anyways - the serial number........... [/quote] Why are you fixated on the serial number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subbeh Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It certainly does look like a quality bit of kit and even including a small outlay with a luthier it seems look you got it for a good price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Cloud Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 [quote name='DavidMcKay' timestamp='1416696165' post='2612798'] White Cloud Thanks for the steer. I've always felt word of mouth to be a far better barometer of quality and value for money than any other form of advertising so I'll take it to Jimmy Moon then. [/quote] I have used Jimmy for 30 years and he has always gone above and beyond the call of duty. He will see you right! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidMcKay Posted November 22, 2014 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 (edited) Hi iCastle [color=#696969][i][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Why are you fixated on the serial number?[/font][/i][/color] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]I guess I was looking for some comfort that I had bought a genuine article. I am reminded of a guy I knew who bought a 'genuine' Gibson guitar for £120 from China, took it into a pawn shop in Glasgow and got £700 for it - and then ran out of the shop with the money in his hand. This is a true story from 5 years ago. You may say the pawn shop should have known better but in this day and age it is getting increasingly more difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.[/color][/font] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]David[/font][/color] [font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif][color=#282828]PS - Given that you weren't actually giving advice I have withheld your free joke. You may appeal this decision but you will lose.[/color][/font] Edited November 23, 2014 by DavidMcKay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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