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Bass mix in live concerts.... Disappointing?


lowendgalore
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Does anyone else find the bass mix in a live concert very disappointing a real lot of the time?

Ive been to recently Jools Holland, Stereophonics, Robbie Williams and just a couple of weeks a go Wiked in the west end and all of these i found the bass in the mix less than satisfactory!

Robbie Williams- very low in the mix, there was no definition at all and became very muddy at points
Jools Holland- It was literally none existent in the mix, it was as if he was miming, i was so frustrated the whole night!
Stereophonics- no definition, could be hear in quieter songs e.g. piano and bass but when the band was in it was gone
Wiked- very low in mix, very hard to hear, very much a lack of low end in the tone.. sounded like a guitar when i actually could make it out, just generally couldn't make it out and had to really really listen for it!

Also when I'm playing live and you know, there will be a Professional Sound Company doing sound with a stack of double 18's for subs worth probably £10k and i take out my in ears i literally year no bass I'm just like what? at gigs my dad has been at he will comment something like i could hear G on the 4th string and everything else it just wasn't there (makes me feel annoyed and that i could have just sat at home, as I'm sure you guys would feel the same)

Also... a lot of kick drum in some of these cases.... maybe filling in for lack of bass??


Hmmmmmmm......Maybe I'm just extremely picky... but hey, lets hear some of your thoughts and experiences!!

Edited by lowendgalore
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It's not what the engineers what to hear though. They have to provide what the artist, audience or label want don't they?

Doesn't everyone now want that sub going on with thumping kick drum? Just listen to the kids in their hot hatchs.

I agree it's pretty poor.

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[quote name='madshadows' timestamp='1416857661' post='2614410']
Me and a mate saw THUNDER at the O2 London Brooklyn Bowl on 6th November and the bass seemed just right in the mix to my ears, it was a fantastic gig :)

John :)
[/quote]

I second this - great gig - can't wait for Hammersmith in March.


Anyway, as I always say - I don't mind if I'm not heard, just as long as I'm felt.

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Saw Cannibal Corpse recently, got one of the best bassists in extreme metal and he was literally inaudible. Top flight gear - Spector bass, Radial Tonebone and Darkglass B7K on his pedal board, into an Aguilar DB750 and DB 8x10, when he played a couple of notes between songs it sounded great, however I was watching his hands, stood next to the sound desk and couldn't hear a single note. They had their tour manager on the sound desk, so no real argument about not knowing their sound.

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[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1416857491' post='2614404']
There was nothing wrong with Norm's bass mix when I saw The Blockheads last week :)
[/quote]

You were about 10ft from his bass rig though. I think we're talking about sound from PA after the front of house mix.

Most small gigs <300 people seem to be spot on.

.

Edited by TimR
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I genuinely believe big pa systems with masses of subs can destroy a bassist's sound if the engineer isn't focused on getting the bass through but a decent engineer can make the bass sing. You can have as much kick as you like as long as the bass sits in a different space. For me it's the mids that usually get lost and in a big venue they're soooo important. If you're gonna give the kick a big boost at around 60hz that's fine but make sure the bass sits above it and give it a boost in low mids.
My general experience though is that you need both a good engineer and a good seat. In huge venues the sound by the desk can be totally different to the sound at the back or in the gods. If you stand / sit near the engineer and he's good / cares then it's usually ok.

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The last named band I saw was The Darkness about a year ago, and the bass mix was fine, Frankie on fine-pirate-bass duties. But on the whole I agree with the sentiments that largely bass is condemned to a low rumbling mush, almost a get it out of the way practice.

I put a post on here on Sat, called 1980, where listening to Tony Blackburns Pick of The Pops for that year, bass was well defined, audible, good presence and good bass lines through the majority of the songs. Doesn`t happen much now in recorded music from what I hear, both on radio and on the music I buy, so I suppose we shouldn`t be that amazed that live performance reflects the recordings?

Edited by Lozz196
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Responding to the few that said about walking around a venue to check the sound - yes if im on a small gig and we are maybe doing sound ourselves i will do this, and im usually pretty happy with where we get things sitting.

Generally speaking, the smaller gigs where the band do they sound themselves i usually find the bass experience fairly good generally!

Its big gigs/proffesional gigs 1000+ to arena tours that disapoint me.

Theres one company that when i look and ask them about some of there eq-ing they boost nothing, they only take out... So i might i ask whell hows my bass sitting guys and they will say something like "took out 62hz, it was a bit heavy there" and im like ahhh:(

thats where id be wanting them to boost it;) haha


Cool to hear your thoughts!

Edited by lowendgalore
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[quote name='UglyDog' timestamp='1416860660' post='2614479']
I went to see Rush on their Hold Your Fire tour at Wembley Arena in 1988(?). Ged was playing his black Wal, and looked like he was on great form -- a bit hard to tell though, because I didn't hear a single bloody note he played all night :(
[/quote]

Hmm.. I also went to the Hold Your Fire tour at Wembley Arena, and I heard it fine. The only problem I had was that he was singing off on a few songs, like he couldn't hear himself properly.

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