Learning scales or notes first.

[blue]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1416998675' post='2615821']

For just doing what most do, playing in hobby bands, endless learning of notation and scale theory is not really required.[/quote]

Maybe not required, but it doesn't hurt.

Blue

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='red rooster' timestamp='1416971852' post='2615668']
Was at bass lessons last night and our teacher was trying to teach us the major scales now I understand that you can play the scales in various ways positions etc but to me learning the notes on the neck should come first ,
[/quote]
If you want to learn where the notes are on the fretboard then why don't you just learn them. It's not hard and won't take long. They go in alphabetical order A to G with a few sharps added in.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1417038107' post='2616587']
I think I possibly misunderstood what you meant, sorry.

Asking questions of the tutor shows, to me anyway, that you're learning and involved in what's going on.


[/quote]Sound, no problem!

[Dan Dare]

I'm struggling to understand why one has to do one or the other thing - scales, notes, etc - first. It sounds a bit mechanical/programmed. Surely learning is a cumulative process and you acquire/learn combinations of pieces of knowledge as you progress.

[ambient]

[quote name='Dan Dare' timestamp='1417042734' post='2616633']
I'm struggling to understand why one has to do one or the other thing - scales, notes, etc - first. It sounds a bit mechanical/programmed. Surely learning is a cumulative process and you acquire/learn combinations of pieces of knowledge as you progress.
[/quote]

To me it's kind of like learning the meaning of French words before attempting a conversation with a French guy.

Notes are what you play, you're just learning the names of them.

Just like you learn the names of friend, work colleagues, fellow students etc.

[red rooster]

Hi folks thanks for the replys , First off I'm happy with my teacher been going afew weeks now and I can play 2 or 3 covers ,I'm ok with tab I do find I need to break it down into small bits and learn it in my head first before I can learn it on the bass.I also do ask questions quite a bit. Not sure where I want to go with my playing don't really like just learning covers, I like playing blues runs etc think I'm more inclined to play with some mates just jamming etc so really need to know what I'd play if for instance a guitarist said we're playing in g or e or any thing just thought knowing the notes was the easiest way go least then I could just play root notes...back to the scales I learnt two yesterday can play them up ,down back to front etc my timeing can suck a bit at times. But I'm having fun what it's about .

[Norris]

The point of scales is not just to learn them but also to hone your fluidity, dynamics, attack, duration, etc. It's not just about the notes it's also practising your technique

Edit: And of course, your timing!

Edited November 27, 2014 by Norris

[Grangur]

Its good that you feel you're now getting somewhere.

The problem you will have is learning in a group of people means that you will learn to do what your teacher wants ro teach, not what you want to learn. Plus if you challenge all the time he and others will get fed up.

From what you say I suggest you enrol in Scottsbasslessons.com. Join the Academy and follow the beginner course an move on frm there. Its very effective and you can control wgat you want to do and the pace at which you do it.

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='red rooster' timestamp='1417061613' post='2616705']
I can play 2 or 3 covers ,I'm ok with tab I do find I need to break it down into small bits
[/quote]

ssh! don't let the TAB nazi's here you say that!

[Geek99]

Personally I think you should make efforts to learn both at the same time. Spend some time on each - learning note locations shows you that scales aren't just a box shape, learning scales will show you how to fit in with chords .

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Geek99' timestamp='1417081753' post='2616826']
Personally I think you should make efforts to learn both at the same time. Spend some time on each - learning note locations shows you that scales aren't just a box shape, learning scales will show you how to fit in with chords .
[/quote]
I agree with this.

Someone mentioned a whole tone being a two fret shift before but I decided not to confuse matters

[timmo]

[quote name='red rooster' timestamp='1417061613' post='2616705'] But I'm having fun what it's about .
[/quote] That is the most important bit.

[ambient]

I can see why some people don't bother learning either.

They're put off by the tedium of learning.

I think though, if you challenge yourself, then you maybe lose that tedium ?

I like to get away from shapes, you should learn the notes of the scale, not rely on a shape.

One of my tutors encouraged us to play a scale on one string only, any scale, it needn't start on the root either. So you could for instance play an E major scale on the A string starting with the open A, and go all the way along that one string, just playing E major. Then play it descending too. Go through the cycle of 4th and play through every key.

That's quite tough, but challenging and pushes you, means you don't rely on shapes, it enables you to see a scale anywhere on the fretboard, and it means you have to learn what notes are where.

[Geek99]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1417137801' post='2617505']
I can see why some people don't bother learning either.

One of my tutors encouraged us to play a scale on one string only, any scale, it needn't start on the root either. So you could for instance play an E major scale on the A string starting with the open A, and go all the way along that one string, just playing E major.



[/quote]
Isn't that actually a mode ? Lydian in this case I think ?
I agree though learn the scale, not the box, learn the board and see the scale all over

[zero9]

Learn the scales and the notes. Say / sing the note names as you play the scale. Tough to start with, but after a while they'll stick.

[timmo]

I hope this chart will be useful
Major ----------------------------------- Minor
C <--------------------------------------> Am
G <--------- 1#----------------------> Em
D <----------- 2#`s --------------------> Bm
A <---------- 3#`s--------------------> F#m
E <-------------4#`s ------------------> C#m
B <------------- 5#`s ------------------> G#m
F# <------------6#`s ------------------> D#m
C# <------------7#`s ----------------> A#m

F <------------ 1b -------------------> Dm
Bb <----------- 2b`s ------------------> Gm
Eb <----------- 3b`s ------------------> Cm
Ab <----------- 4b`s ------------------> Fm
Db <----------- 5b`s ------------------> Bbm
Gb <------------6b`s ------------------> Ebm
Cb <----------- 7b`s -------------------> Abm
Order of sharps --------------------------------Order of Flats
F#, C# ,G# ,D#, A#, E#, B# ------------------------Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, Cb,Fb
So if you use tha chart. Key of C Major you will see has no Sharps, so they are all natural notes.Same with Key of Am, has no sharps, only Natural notes. If you take E Major, you will see it has 4 sharps, which if you look at the order of sharps, you will see that it will always be F#, C# , G#, D#, The next 3 notes will all be natural A, E, B. If you look across the chart from E Major, you will see C#M will have 4 sharps. So look at the Order of Sharps, and you will see the first four notes will be the same as E major. The same for flats. So key of natural F Major has 1 flat, which will be Bb, and the same for Dm. That is if you are playing Major scale, and Natural minor. Hope that is easy to understand. Here is hoping i haven`t made a mistake. I am no teacher, so i am not the best at explaining things

Edited November 28, 2014 by timmo

[CamdenRob]

It’s a popular misconception that learning theory is only any good if you want to read music… sight reading is a completely different skill and you arguably could become reasonably proficient at sight reading without knowing anything about theory.

It’s how the notes fit together to enable you to write music in a given key that’s important. For example in C you have the notes

C(I) D(II) E(III) F(IV) G(V) A(VI) B(VII) C(VIII)

I’ve used numerals in brackets as the theory is relevant to any key not just C and the intervals between the scale degrees are the same.

A basic chord (triad) would take the I,III and V degree of the scale, so in C that would be C,D & E this is a major triad and gives you a major chord.

If you take the next degree of the scale (D) and play the notes of the C major scale (as we are in the Key of C) between D and D you have the dorian mode… if you take I,III and V from D dorian you get the notes D,F and A which is a minor triad giving you a D minor chord.

If you then continue up the sequence running E to E using the notes of C major (EFGABCDE) (I,III and V = E,G,B minor triad again) you get the next mode which is Phrygian. Then;

F-F = Lydian (Major Triad)
G-G = Myxolidian (Major Triad)
A-A = Aolian Mode (Minor Triad)
And B-B = Locrian mode (half diminished triad (bIII and bV)

So by using only the notes of C major you have the chords Cmaj, Dmin, Emin, Fmaj, Gmaj, Amin and Bhalfdim that are related and will all sound good together in the context of a song. You can use notes from the modes over these chords to create basslines in harmony with the chords… Much more interesting than just playing root notes or the same as the guitar an octave lower…

Edited November 28, 2014 by CamdenRob

[red rooster]

CamdenRob thanks for that ,and thanks to everyone else who has replied honestly for a beginer to get replies like these thats great ,thanks alot im going to stivk at it learn both notes and scales.

[Geek99]

My advice is to learn all the A locations one day, then next day remind yourself about those and move on to B and so on.
Then you can go back and fill in the flat notes after. Comes togethervquickly. Dont try and do too much on one day as you just wont take it in.

We try and be nice to beginners here, everyone has to start somewhere sometime,