Hohner B2A zero fret height

[icecream]

Hi, I have recently bought a headless B2A, which needs some fret work. Not too familiar with zero frets, but the majority seem to believe these should have some additional height, i.e. about normal nut height. Mine is actually at fret level - in fact slightly low with the wear. I feel certain it is the same fret wire as the othrr frets. Could anyone with one of these confirm the zero fret height? Many thanks.

[Andyjr1515]

Same as a standard fret
Hope this helps

[icecream]

Nice one Andy. I guessed that from it's current state, just wanted to confirm before I smooth it down.

[Andyjr1515]

Hi again,
By coincidence, just this morning, I read in 'Guitarist' that the zero fret is a little higher than the rest but that is news to me and doesn't quite seem logical - ie zero fret to fret 1 is surely geometrically identical to a fretted fret 1 to fret 2, etc.. Certainly the ones I have built have always been the same fret material so therefore the same height...

However - re-reading your post - lower than the others would give you some issues.

Anyone else got a view?

Andy

Edited November 28, 2014 by Andyjr1515

[brensabre79]

Perhaps for guitar a touch higher means you can really jangle those open chords?

But for bass, I have always set up mine in the same way, Nut height the same as the frets for those without a zero. Ergo zero fret the same as the other frets would seem to be the most logical. Higher and the 1st fret will be harder to play, lower and it'll rattle.

BUT I'm not a luthier, just someone who sets up my own basses the way i like'em.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1417181792' post='2617878']
Perhaps for guitar a touch higher means you can really jangle those open chords?

But for bass, I have always set up mine in the same way, Nut height the same as the frets for those without a zero. Ergo zero fret the same as the other frets would seem to be the most logical. Higher and the 1st fret will be harder to play, lower and it'll rattle.

BUT I'm not a luthier, just someone who sets up my own basses the way i like'em.
[/quote]
Matches my experience (phew!)

[blablas]

My engineering instinct and training tells me it's optimum when the zero fret has the same height as the other frets. Whatever the fanboy experts and some luthiers say contrary to that is wrong.

[ikay]

The zero fret may be the same height as other frets or a little higher. Depends on the manufacturer and how well the neck tolerates a low setup. Using the same size fret wire will often give a slightly lower open string action than a traditionally cut nut. This can cause a bit of open string buzz if the neck is very straight (ie. minimal relief). Using a slightly larger fret wire for the zero fret gets round that. The zero fret on my Hofner is slightly bigger than the others for example.

[zero9]

Same height. The string excursion at the next fret (1st fret) will be minimal when the string is plucked.

[icecream]

Many thanks to all. The bass is now redressed with all frets the same height. A very slight bit of relief, and all frets are now buzz free. A good clean and oil while everything was apart, now ready for action.

[rmorris]

The possible issue with having the zero fret (or nut) uniform with the other 'regular' frets is that the string is always anchored there.
This can lead to additional string on fret contact noise from the 'non sounding' section of string when fretting notes.
I'll agree that this might not apply to an instrument set up 'perfectly' to avoid this but that's a tall order.
And it won't matter to many players but it can be a reason to have zero fret / nut height a tad higher.
The nearer it is to uniform will benefit intonation etc.

[tauzero]

I have a couple of instruments with zero frets easily to hand so I've just examined them carefully.

Eko 6-string acoustic - zero fret identical to other frets.

Hohner B2AV - zero fret larger than other frets, seems to be jumbo fret wire as opposed to standard. I think the height difference would be a little less than 1mm, but it's definitely different.

[umpdv5000]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]As a luthier I can confirm that most guitar builders will use a slightly highter fret for the Zero fret, although this is as much a technical matter as it is a preference. In a perfect engineering world, it should be exactly the same height as the rest. However, there are two things to take into account....[/size][/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]1. Player enthusiasm. Any string will rattle a bit if you hit it hard enough and so many players have been used to giving the open strings an extra whack whilst expecting them to be rattle free. A slightly higher fret will better allow this.[/size][/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]2. Getting an angle over the Zero fret so that it connects firmly. When a regular nut slot is cut, the bottom of the slot is not parallel to the fretboard. It is cut sloping toward the head so as to pivot on the fretboard edge of the nut. A Zero fret still needs a sufficient angle in order that the string frets properly. As long as the wood between the deep cut nut string guides does not inhibit this, then a Zero fret of the same height will work perfectly well and depending on the player, be more preferable. [/size][/font]

Edited December 28, 2014 by umpdv5000

[rmorris]

[quote name='umpdv5000' timestamp='1419770963' post='2642555']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]As a luthier I can confirm that most guitar builders will use a slightly highter fret for the Zero fret, although this is as much a technical matter as it is a preference. In a perfect engineering world, it should be exactly the same height as the rest. However, there are two things to take into account....[/size][/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]1. Player enthusiasm. Any string will rattle a bit if you hit it hard enough and so many players have been used to giving the open strings an extra whack whilst expecting them to be rattle free. A slightly higher fret will better allow this.[/size][/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=5]2. Getting an angle over the Zero fret so that it connects firmly. When a regular nut slot is cut, the bottom of the slot is not parallel to the fretboard. It is cut sloping toward the head so as to pivot on the fretboard edge of the nut. A Zero fret still needs a sufficient angle in order that the string frets properly. As long as the wood between the deep cut nut string guides does not inhibit this, then a Zero fret of the same height will work perfectly well and depending on the player, be more preferable. [/size][/font]
[/quote]

I get the second point but not the first...
I'm not sure why a player would hit an open string harder than a fretted string - although oddly it does instinctively seem that it might be the case !