sammybee Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Has anyone here successfully bought anything from Thomann without the VAT added? Their FAQ suggests they will not charge VAT if you supply a GB VAT number. Selected my bass, input my details (including VAT number) and the price stays the same. At what point do they adjust the price? I dont want to complete the payment page in case I get charged (and then I'm not sure if I can claim it back - as it is an EU supplier). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumple Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Not sure about Thomann but as a VAT registered freelancer I've bought stuff from Adobe and Wacom in Europe and the price at checkout is without VAT, it's deducted when you put your valid VAT number in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammybee Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 Thats what I thought would happen with Thomann - but the price stays the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Oh dear, I try to avoid my real life on here but I'm afraid I'm an ex HMC&E VAT man. So here goes .............. Thomann will not charge VAT when provided with a genuine UK VAT number (they can check VAT numbers so don't bother trying to use Boots). What should happen is that the UK customer will charge themselves acquisition VAT at 20% on their next VAT return. Provided the bass has been acquired for use in their business. For those who don't remember that Thomann submit a declaration which shows the VAT number of the recipient and so they can check your box 2 entry to make sure you account for it. If you do not have a VAT number Thomann will charge you German VAT. The process combats fraud because the (VAT registered) recipient has nothing to gain by not accounting for the VAT - it's almost always fully deductible. The non-registered customer pays VAT as you would in any shop. By the way, the VAT registered person not buying for use in their business shouldn't provide their VAT number and they'd be charged German VAT also. I'm get my coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 I should add that the VAT registered person claims back the VAT in box 4 of the same return so it's neutral, it costs nothing extra - no different from the treatment of buying in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1417378007' post='2619780'] Oh dear, I try to avoid my real life on here but I'm afraid I'm an ex HMC&E VAT man. So here goes .............. Thomann will not charge VAT when provided with a genuine UK VAT number (they can check VAT numbers so don't bother trying to use Boots). What should happen is that the UK customer will charge themselves acquisition VAT at 20% on their next VAT return. Provided the bass has been acquired for use in their business. For those who don't remember that Thomann submit a declaration which shows the VAT number of the recipient and so they can check your box 2 entry to make sure you account for it. If you do not have a VAT number Thomann will charge you German VAT. The process combats fraud because the (VAT registered) recipient has nothing to gain by not accounting for the VAT - it's almost always fully deductible. The non-registered customer pays VAT as you would in any shop. By the way, the VAT registered person not buying for use in their business shouldn't provide their VAT number and they'd be charged German VAT also. I'm get my coat. [/quote] Burn him!!!! Just kidding Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1417378160' post='2619784'] I should add that the VAT registered person claims back the VAT in box 4 of the same return so it's neutral, it costs nothing extra - no different from the treatment of buying in the UK. [/quote] So why's it such a bastard to buy things from the States? Answer that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1417378420' post='2619788'] So why's it such a bastard to buy things from the States? Answer that one! [/quote] Apart from having to pay VAT and Duty (the Duty being the only additional charge to a UK shop), what is the problem you refer to? I'll explain if there's something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Ok, as you were. Just read the Thomann site. They have a pan-EU VAT number and will charge you UK VAT which you claim back. I suspect part of their site hasn't been updated to reflect the pan EU VAT registration. The FAQ seems to refer to the old regime that I describe above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1417378850' post='2619800'] Apart from having to pay VAT and Duty (the Duty being the only additional charge to a UK shop), what is the problem you refer to? I'll explain if there's something else. [/quote] Because you are paying VAT on something where sales tax has already been paid. It's not like the seller takes of the sales tax off in the purchase price. plus the duty on top of that and the [s]extortion[/s] fee from Parcel force for doing something on my behalf without asking and holding goods to ransom. It seems like these things are stacked on top to deliberately make things more expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Hmm, sales tax shouldn't be applied in the US on an export item. Not sure how that's happened but that is certainly wrong. Re the fee from Parcel Force, the goods can't get through Customs without the VAT and Duty being settled so they pay it on your behalf and charge you an admin fee for doing it. It may be costly but your goods are stuck on the dock-side until those charges are paid. YOu do have an option (without wanting to sound facetious) you use your VAT to apply for an EORI number which enables you to then set up a Duty deferment account (which requires you to lodge and amount of security equal to the VAT and Duty you are likely to incur in the first year). Your bank will be required to provide a guarantee which will cost you. You also have to set up a direct debit so the charges can be deducted automatically. Your ability to recover those charges is provided halfway through the following month so you're carrying that cashflow until your next return. Sorry to come across as an ar$e but that's the answer to the question and the admin fee you are charged is tiny compared to the additional cost to you of setting up the deferment account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammybee Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1417379085' post='2619802'] Ok, as you were. Just read the Thomann site. They have a pan-EU VAT number and will charge you UK VAT which you claim back. I suspect part of their site hasn't been updated to reflect the pan EU VAT registration. The FAQ seems to refer to the old regime that I describe above. [/quote] Thanks for clarifying - I'm on the flat rate scheme, so this wont help me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1417380359' post='2619826'] Hmm, sales tax shouldn't be applied in the US on an export item. Not sure how that's happened but that is certainly wrong. [/quote] I don't mean new goods, but second hand goods from a private seller. They've paid sales tax when they've bought them and the difference is not taken off when they sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammybee Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1417381304' post='2619853'] I don't mean new goods, but second hand goods from a private seller. They've paid sales tax when they've bought them and the difference is not taken off when they sell. [/quote] Doesn't that happen in the UK too? At least in the USA its only 5/6/7% I think when people advertise a nearly new bass in the UK, they should knock off 20% before they even start making deductions for it being 2nd hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1417381304' post='2619853'] I don't mean new goods, but second hand goods from a private seller. They've paid sales tax when they've bought them and the difference is not taken off when they sell. [/quote] Not if they buy out of state (which lots of Anericans do). Plus, as mentioned above, their sales taxes tend to be really low because they have such a different taxation and public funding economy. Edited November 30, 2014 by molan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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