would a bad drummer make you quit a band? I just did :-(

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1417717407' post='2623443']
so you expect drummers to play with an inferior bass player so they can improve but not the other way round?
[/quote]

Damned right! Why would I do anything else?

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1417719606' post='2623472']
Damned right! Why would I do anything else?


[/quote]maybe so you can help out a not so good drummer?

Edited December 4, 2014 by PaulWarning

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1417717407' post='2623443']
so you expect drummers to play with an inferior bass player so they can improve but not the other way round?
[/quote]

but a bass player's cool is able to pervade the surroundings and mesmerises the rest of the players, translating even a mediocre player into a veritable force of nature and they all think he's ([i]edit: [/i]or she's) amazing.

It's our secret weapon.

What do you mean, you didn't know that? Are you really a bass player or do you just play a bass guitar?

Edited December 4, 2014 by mcnach

[TimR]

There are some basic qualities all drummers should have:
1. Keep time. Not slow down or speed up if the bass player played ahead or behind the beat.
2. Play the right number of whole beats in a bar. The band shouldn't have to wait until the fill has finished before they start the next bar.
3. Pick up the tune from middle of a verse or chorus etc. during rehearsals. He shouldn't have to count everyone in everytime from the top.
4. Play fills to fill a gap in the music, not just when they fancy and trample all over another instrument or vocal line.
5. Play with appropriate volume.
6. Stay sober.
7. Not start fights.


Some will bring more to the party but as long as those 7 are present I'm happy.

Edit: And not miss drums, drop sticks or fall off chair. There are some right clowns around.

.

Edited December 4, 2014 by TimR

[stingrayPete1977]

I'm always the sh*te member of the band

[M@23]

I have and would again leave bands for dodgy drummers. Its ok at open jam sessions, where you can try things out and have a laugh but takes the fun out of gigging knowing there could be a monumental drumming cock up around the corner. I was in a band where the singer was on edge and not confident because the drummer either momentarily forgot how to play drums completely, or would lose time, speed up, slow down, add a stupid fill and it was a bit embarrassing to be honest. Having to stop mid song because the drummer has lost time and cant get back on the beat is not a nice experience!

[discreet]

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1417732804' post='2623660']
...a monumental drumming cock...
[/quote]

That's what we're talking about!!

[PaulWarning]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1417726194' post='2623575']
but a bass player's cool is able to pervade the surroundings and mesmerises the rest of the players, translating even a mediocre player into a veritable force of nature and they all think he's ([i]edit: [/i]or she's) amazing.

It's our secret weapon.

What do you mean, you didn't know that? Are you really a bass player or do you just play a bass guitar?
[/quote]Oh I just thrash hell out it playing Punk Rock with a pick, so I guess it's pushing it a bit to say I play a Bass guitar

[mcnach]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1417771935' post='2623816']
Oh I just thrash hell out it playing Punk Rock with a pick, so I guess it's pushing it a bit to say I play a Bass guitar
[/quote]

[Conan]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1417692726' post='2623062']
So you're saying that it s OK to have a dodgy singer i.e. the person that is the focus of your audience.
There's definitely something wrong with that.
[/quote]

Depends what you mean by "dodgy". Some singers can be hopeless from a technical point of view, but have a certain "spark" or charisma that really comes across well to an audience. From that point of view, I'd be happy to play with a "dodgy" singer!

Dodgy drummers will always make the job of a bass player more difficult, if not impossible. There are degrees of dodgy of course!!

[Krysbass]

A few weeks ago, I quit a covers band that I started and it was about 80% because of the crap drummer. It was almost as if the more this guy learned, the less he knew as he seemed to be getting worse - to the point that I was getting nervous before gigs because I was afraid of what impossible situations he'd give me. He was substituting his own overly busy rhythms into songs so making the original bass-line no longer fit. His biggest gaffe was dropping in fills but coming back in off the beat.

It was very hard to reach the decision to leave this band, mainly because I'd started it, but when I sat back and analysed things there were at least 11 venues that had stopped re-booking us so the band was on its last legs anyway. I couldn't just fire the drummer and replace him, as the guitarist and singer wouldn't have agreed to it.

I can only say that since I made the break I've never regretted it and in fact feel liberated. I'm currently with another band where everyone takes responsibility for the standard of their playing and I'm enjoying it so much that that I now recognise that I shouldn't have persevered with the last band for as long as I did.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Krysbass

[TimR]

[quote name='Krysbass' timestamp='1417788058' post='2624030']
...
[/quote]

That sounds very familiar. Good luck.

[Paul S]

Yes I have and would always in future if it arose. Sometimes just the threat of leaving is enough - I don't like to put people in a position where they have to choose 'him or me' but, well, occasionally that's the way I have felt and thankfully it has always worked out. Like a lot of people on here I don't play for the money, the sex or drugs - it is for fun and the buzz of being part of a tight rhythm section is a big bit of that. 'If it isn't fun its time to run'

[Iain]

I've had the pleasure of playing with drummers much better at drumming than I am on bass a few times. One a rock drummer who has played for Paradise Lost and another who has a list of credits that was really impressive. Both were awesome, put down some great beats and made the sound of the rest of the band better. Utter privilege to play with great musicians. Equally sometimes you find yourself with people who are still improving and, hopefully, your own playing makes them better.

I try not to judge too much, I was bad on bass, now I'm better. There are people much better that I aspire to equal. Sometimes though I can see that you'd want to distance yourself from a musician who's just at a different stage to yourself - otherwise you'll fail to achieve your potential and end up frustrated.

[Paul S]

But sometimes a drummer can be just plain crap and never going to make it, which was the situation I found myself in a couple of times. One was a learner who read charts as he was going and didn't seem very promising. I heard him play a year later and he was worse. Another had been playing badly for 25 years and unlikely to improve at his stage.

[Krysbass]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1417793028' post='2624095']
But sometimes a drummer can be just plain crap and never going to make it, which was the situation I found myself in a couple of times. One was a learner who read charts as he was going and didn't seem very promising. I heard him play a year later and he was worse. Another had been playing badly for 25 years and unlikely to improve at his stage.
[/quote]

That was definitely the case in the band I just left - the drummer in question had played for decades and learned all sorts of "fancy-pants" stuff that in a solo situation might have sounded impressive, but when it came to basic skills such as keeping tempo and playing for the song he just hadn't got a clue. What made it even more frustrating was that the guitarist was beat-deaf (which I understand is now a proven condition alongside tone-deafness) so he didn't notice that there was any problem with the drums, as he often wasn't playing to the beat anyway!

At one point I even wondered if the problem was really some failing on my part, or if I was just being too picky, but my experiences since then with my current band suggest that no - it was definitely the drummer (phew!)

[TimR]

My dad nailed it when he came to see us play and I said I was having trouble playing even simple lines.

"Yes, he's very busy isn't he."

[RockfordStone]

depends on the band, if the band is good and it's just the drummer than i'd lose the drummer.
if the drummer was sh*t and band not much better i'd go
my last drummer struggled with his timing but was generally on, but the style of music we played we could cover for it. i lost it when we had a recording session and he rocked up with a different kit set up and different fills.... a day of my time and money wasted that was... he went not long after

[bigd1]

Any music group is only as good as the drummer. You can make an average band sound great with a good drummer behind them, a bad drummer will make the best group in the world sound crap. Its the basic thing that music is based on rhythm, not the singer, guitarist or dare I say it us the bass players, although we work with the drummer to make a great band.
Listen to any band you really like and think what sells it to you........................................ the rhythm section, built on the drummer.
Yes I would leave a group if the drummer can't keep time.
Your drummers excuse about moving the beat forwards or backwards is bollarks. Yes you do have movement with the beat but, you need to be able to keep the beat before you can start moving it.
Can't believe you have played gigs with this what sounds like idiot. It must sound bad from an audience point of view, especially when as you have said they have even shouted out about the drummers bad playing.
Save yourself, leave now and don't look back !

Edited December 6, 2014 by bigd1

[Jonesthebass]

Old dogs don't learn new tricks. In answer to a previous post. I was never bitter. Frustrated yes and most of the time hung on either through loyalty to other members or loyalty to the filthy lucre! I play for the love but it still constitutes a third of my income.....
Teaching all ages for the last 15 years I know which players are inexperienced and which just don't get it. If the player is similar age to me and they don't play at a reasonable standard then they never will. It doesn't come overnight. Ability is reached through years of dedicated practise. Lots of people don't actually know how to practise properly.....
I'll nurture talent. The last 2 guitarists I played with have been just into their 20's hold their own on guitar but need to be nurse maided for diary keeping, bringing right equipment and clothes for the gig. I can deal with that cos they have logged the hours in the bedroom/ practise room....

[spectoremg]

For me it's simple - life's too short to waste your time with bad drummers, and there are plenty of them around. The trouble with the drums is it's the easiest instrument on which a player can express themselves and be creative. Sadly the end product is often bad timing, flashy fills that don't work and the classic missed beat or extra beat which throws the whole band. They drive me crazy!

[spectoremg]

There's been a great comment made earlier; you get to the rehearsal and the drummer's setting up this ENORMOUS kit! Be afraid, I've always found that ability is obversely proportional to the size of the kit. (unless of course it's Neil Peart setting up).

Edited December 6, 2014 by spectoremg

[spectoremg]

The drummers tale: Loves music and fancies being in a band. Buys himself thousands of pounds worth of Les Paul, effects and a massive Marshall stack (you'll see it gathering dust when you visit him at home one day). Bad idea, has absolutely no aptitude for the guitar. The bass won't work either. Keyboards? Forget it - doesn't have a degree in a science or maths subject. Can't sing for toffee. PING! (light bulb burns brightly), 'I know, I'll get a drum kit'. Quickly realises he's got the sh*te-est gig in the band so relieves the boredom by putting that favourite fill in at every opportunity and occasionally comes back on the beat.

[tauzero]

Our current drummer (who we hope will be remaining so) is dreadfully self-critical after gigs. This evening we generally played well, with significant (to us) drumming cock-ups in two songs that we easily recovered from. The rest of the drumming was solid - I was locked in with it all night. There were as many bass and guitar cock-ups. The drummer was going on afterwards about how he wishes he could stop getting nervous, he tenses up and he cocked up every song. I didn't think he did, nor did the others in the band. I feel like we've got to talk him down from the ledge.

[bassjim]

2 pence worth.......................

i have 2 bands and drummers differ in terms of ability and time keeping. because both are cool people we have an understanding that if i make a pre agreed guesture to speed up we do that and likewise to slow down. if a tune gets counted in at a tempo no where near where it needs to be i will actually stop the band playing,make light of it and start again.even sometimes blaming myself for not tuning up or accidently muted my self via the tuner to keep constant embarisment away from the defendant (at pub gigs mind not a wedding/function ect)
this usually hits home enough for both to go away and get it sorted next time. so no getting heavy and every one is happy and we all get to where we want to be long term but................................
there was this guy at a recent that turned up to dep and was a complete w...ker. nothing was his fault,tempos all over the place,dont tell me what to do kind of attitude.
if this guy was the perm drummer and couldnt be reasoned with and the rest of the band didnt care then kepp going for the money whilst looking for something else and then as soon as you can politley bow out. that way if the band wake up at some point and get a new drummer you could go back as no bridges burnt!