dudi8 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 can someone tell me whats the thing with these basses? why are they so expensive jazz basses? not that i underestimate them, i just really don't know, never tried one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Bwahahahahaha!!! Well try one then! They're just beautifully-made basses. The best designs made using the best components by the best craftsmen. In no way are they "better" than any other top-end boutique manufacturer ... whether or not you happen to prefer Fodera or Sadowsky or whatever doesn't mean that one is better than another, it just means that you like it more. The two Allevas that I've owned are two of the nicest basses I've ever had. The one I still have (a KBP5) would still be my go-to bass were it not for Mike Lull coming up with a bass that actually ticked two boxes for me with an even bigger tick. I like them a lot. Not everybody does of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudi8 Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1417542737' post='2621547'] Bwahahahahaha!!! Well try one then! They're just beautifully-made basses. The best designs made using the best components by the best craftsmen. In no way are they "better" than any other top-end boutique manufacturer ... whether or not you happen to prefer Fodera or Sadowsky or whatever doesn't mean that one is better than another, it just means that you like it more. The two Allevas that I've owned are two of the nicest basses I've ever had. The one I still have (a KBP5) would still be my go-to bass were it not for Mike Lull coming up with a bass that actually ticked two boxes for me with an even bigger tick. I like them a lot. Not everybody does of course. [/quote] but lets say i understand some of the big costs of the more expensive companies (like fodera,MTD,ritter, etc), as they are using really expensive woods in their basses and it takes a very long time to build one, but what can be so expensive in a jazz bass? and i put sadowsky aside, because alleva costs more than twice than a sadowsky (if I'm not mistaken) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 The cost of a high-end, hand-built bass is not much affected by the cost of the raw materials. It's always the people cost that makes the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 There's a lot of timber used in them big headstocks! Great basses though, you pays ya money etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='dudi8' timestamp='1417543108' post='2621554'] but lets say i understand some of the big costs of the more expensive companies (like fodera,MTD,ritter, etc), as they are using really expensive woods in their basses and it takes a very long time to build one, but what can be so expensive in a jazz bass? and i put sadowsky aside, because alleva costs more than twice than a sadowsky (if I'm not mistaken) [/quote] Talked to Martin P about this and his team of two can only make 40 odd basses a year with London expenses so he has two choices. Employ more people to cut down waiting times -which I think is around 12 months - and then lose MP actually doing the work on your bass and it is his craft that you pay for. Since most of the work is done by hand, you get a very long and expensive build process. Or...the alternative to that is more of a prodcution line which is the way Warwick went....and quite a few others who employ more than a handful of people... IMV Martin Petersen's gift is the reason you buy a Sei bass... and I assume other top end luthiers are all still involved in the making of the product that bears their name and they built their success on... or they should be. IMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You can always use the neck as a paddle if you're stuck up a creek too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJE Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='dudi8' timestamp='1417542408' post='2621541'] can someone tell me whats the thing with these basses? why are they so expensive jazz basses? not that i underestimate them, i just really don't know, never tried one! [/quote] I would go with what people have already said. I would say Alleva basses are more about the person building it, the costs associated with renting a workspace in NYC and his overheads that the raw materials that go into the instrument. I played a LG5 (I think) a while a go, it was a nice bass, I can't say I was flawed by the build quality and playability and that it was worth every penny, it was just a nice bass. Was it better than the Overwater basses I have owned or GB basses I have played?.....not a chance, would I pay £3000 for one even if I had the money going spare?....probably not, there are just as good basses out there for a lot less IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I played one in The Gallery a few years ago. The bass I have owned longest is 66J which feels like home. The A-C felt like home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I get the impression that the higher the cost of bass, the more you are paying someone elses rent or mortgage rather than getting something that is better than other high cost basses. It's great to be able to help out the small business man but surely the cost to usability ratio goes right out of the window after a certain amount? Of course you get the honour of a name on the headstock that hardly anyone else has, but other than that what is it that you get from say a £4000 bass compared to a £2000 bass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 If the luthier had anything about him... then I'd say the £4k bass would be better than the £2k bass. £2k bring you into the realms of Sadowsky metros so whilst a pretty good standard, they are more producition made, aiui. This doesn't disqualify them of course, and the gap between £2k and £4K should be narrower that £2k and £1k, IMO. But, it really depends if you buy into the little things that may or may not make the difference... and how much a relatively rare and bespoke instrument is worth it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No lust in Jazz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 The one thing that stops we lusting after and buying a Coppolo P Bass is the look of the headstock, which really doesn't work for my eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fingerz Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 The problem with all these sort of debates, is they revolve around the theory that due to the price tag, they will be 'all things to all players'. I think the feel of AC's when you play one is that it has had serious time spent on it, with someones own hands (at least the older ones I have played). That's a totally ambiguous thing to say, but there's something there to me. I have played one with a dead spot, others have quirks (like the crazy top fret hanging off the top of the finger board).Some people don't hear these things, or care about them. It's like Jimmy builds in Fenders old design floors as well as the good bits, but with the aim of it achieving the tone of an old instrument. Which I really respect personally. I've heard them sound fantastic 'in the band' which is not something I can say for a lot of other 'top' luthiers. I also played a Jazz ('78 I think) with an AC Pre installed and it was out of this world. I think that bass actually previously belonged to a very well know gent and AC ambassador with one of the biggest gigs in this country.. It was an amazing bass. To answer your question directly, to say "Is it worth the money?", is one of those questions that will get you a mixed bag of answers/opinions. There could well be one out there for you, if you play it and love it, then the answer is "Yes", that's not to say everyone you pick up is going to do it. I think you don't get F Bass/John East type customer service but only AC's sound like AC's and that preamp is one of the few that actually respect old school tone, the neck radius is nice and old school too. I always play them where possible and would buy one if it spoke to me. But I am a tart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted December 4, 2014 Share Posted December 4, 2014 [quote name='No lust in Jazz' timestamp='1417689850' post='2623016'] The one thing that stops we lusting after and buying a Coppolo P Bass is the look of the headstock, which really doesn't work for my eyes. [/quote] Somehow they dont look so bad in the flesh to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted December 5, 2014 Share Posted December 5, 2014 So, I'm going to have some bias because we are Jimmy Coppolo's partner in the UK. In very general terms I think he simply makes the best vintage type J & P style basses ever. His real point of difference is that he can produce a 5 string that can compare with the very best vintage Fender you've ever heard but with an extra string We recently ran a test with a huge range of instruments and a seriously hot pro player and the AC just killed it. A lot of the others were very, very good but when it came down to it the bass we all wanted to take home was the Alleva. It was one of the most expensive but against very stiff competition it was just the best all round instrument in the room. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzjames Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) I remember hearing Paul Turner using one with Jamiroquai at Hyde Park supporting Stevie Wonder (good day), and I still remember that his bass just sounded so clear but fat and sweet all at the same time. In hyde park! But then again, he's a top player so he'd make a Squier classic vibe jazz bass sound pretty awesome. Are ACs worth the money? If you are a pro and it's your living to make the absolute best sound possible, and they're your vibe, then maybe it is worth the extra cost. But you really have to know what you're doing to appreciate and take advantage of that extra bit of tone or playability that a bass like that gives you. The afore mentioned squier classic vibes to me are great value for a starter bass, and I'd happily do a gig on one if I had to, no issue. Do I 'want' one? No. The ones I played didn't 'speak' to me like my two do. Instruments are such a personal matter... Recently I've played foderas and Sadowskys and I've put them straight back down again. "That particular bass, not for me." I have a Mike Lull PJ5, not a cheap instrument, but don't assume that they're all awesome over a certain price point, because I played 2 second hand mike lulls at a shop in the UK recently and I wasn't into either of them. But when I tried [my] early 90s MIJ fender precision bass on Denmark street a few years back, I knew I had to buy it there and then. I think things made out of wood have such an element of luck, and you can get an absolute gem for not much money if you look around and get lucky like I did. The converse is also true, meaning that a bass can be worth this and that amount of money, like any Pre-CBS Fender, but are they all amazing? No. Don't be suckered into thinking that if it's expensive, it's always better, because it's not. Edited December 13, 2014 by Jazzjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) I totally understand why someone would want to buy an AC or Fodera. That's a no brainer to me. What I can't understand is why anyone would want to pay millions to live in Kensington or Camden when they could have a whole estate 10 miles outside the M25 for the same money. Then again, why does anyone play more than £20K for a car? The bow for a concert grade double bass would set you back more than the cost of an AC so we should be thankful these basses are as cheap as they are. Edited December 13, 2014 by chris_b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulie Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Sorry to weigh in on an old post but if you don want to spend big money on a jazz or precision style bass Id think carefully before getting an AC. His build quality can be disgraceful to say the least. I owned 3. The first was a great bass but the scratch plate didn't cover over some of the routing on the lower bout, you could actually see a gap and visibly look into the control cavity. It was a p bass body. The second was a jazz. Two huge flaws. 1. The block markers were all set off line, as in closer to one side of the neck than the other. 2. The actual neck was mismatched with the neck pocket. It sat over the edge of the pocket and the strings were all offline as a result. It seems that the neck pocket routing was too small for the heel of the neck and it sat over one side as a result. The strings passed over the pickups offline. it was a jazz bass and the E string passed over the outside of the outer of the two pole pieces and the inner of the two pole pieces on the G. Shocking quality. I also tried out another of his basses in a shop in the UK and it had wormholes in the back of the neck that had been filled in. Now, having said all that, if you get one that doesn't have these flaws and comes with his pickups and preamp, then it can be magical! So yes, I recommend them but most definitely try before you buy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thodrik Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 'Why are [insert name of company who makes expensive basses that look remarkably like a Fender Jazz]'s so expensive?' is a common question. The 'super Fender' is a niche market and there is a high demand for the instruments. Since the companies are generally smaller than say, Fender, the price of the instruments will be pretty high to reflect the work of the small team, or individual who made the bass. Companies like Sadowsky and Fodera also operate out of New York, so the cost of operating the premises are probably pretty high as well. Alleva Coppolo I believe build their instruments to be more similar in feel and sound to vintage Fenders from the 1960s, as opposed to say Nordstrand and Sadowsky who make basses that look like Fenders but have modern high output pickups and EQ systems. After a certain price point, there isn't really 'better' so much as different. It just depends on whether it is the right instrument for you and whether you are willing to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebassist Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Find a good playing jazz bass, install a good pre-amp, a decent set of pick-ups and you're there really. So much of the sound is in people's fingers anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwood Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Mine [url=http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=703285image985.jpg][img=http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/703285image985.jpg][/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebassist Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 [quote name='Norwood' timestamp='1454747505' post='2972525'] Mine [url="http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=703285image985.jpg"][img=http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/703285image985.jpg][/url] [/quote] Lovely... and is that next to your bed? If it is you're an absolute genius!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 The reason that there is such a good market for Fender type basses is because Fender are pretty poor value for the money... IMO. so if you'll pay upto £1500 for their American Range,,, plus another £1000 or so for a CS... that money is better spent somewhere else, IMO and that brings you into a more custom, but infinitely better instrument for the money. IME. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norwood Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Yes it's my bed. Exactly JTUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leroydiamond Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 (edited) I have only had two AC basses in my hands. One of them was terrific, the other one had some weird build issues (string misalignment over the pickups and neck pocket issues). One of the reason why AC, Sadowsky and other U.S. built basses are so expensive in Euro land is because of the strong dollar. I purchased my NYC Sadowsky five years ago whilst residing in New York and it cost be less that 2.5 K Euro. To purchase the same spec bass on Thomann today would cost over twice the price. Is my bass worth that kind of money?.......not a chance. I have seen a number of off the rail basses that have undergone some tweaking in terms of pickups etc. and have turned out to be cracking instruments. Plus there is very good value in terms of buying a boutique bass in the UK. I had a Jaydee Roadie Active II for many years and it was a fantastic bass. I only let it go because it got too heavy for my ageing shoulder. Today this bass costs £1355 and represents tremendous value IMO. Similarly Shuker, AC guitars, Bravewood etc represent good value options in this regard. Edited February 7, 2016 by leroydiamond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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