It's just not fair

[cameltoe]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417642019' post='2622656']


Yeah that they missed it big time! lol.

You know reading some comments you would think that many really don't care about having more choice. Im not trying to change the world here im just asking for a few more cool toys for us bass players.

Here is an example the vox night train combo recently sold for 199 this was on special offer but as an example i will used it.
[url="http://s330.photobucket.com/user/Twincam2008/media/vox_zps9f45b544.jpg.html"][/url]

Who would not want a bass version of something like this?. Its so cool. Ok to get it at a price point i suggested a big company like thomann could do them. But whoever did them they would sell.
[/quote]
I would totally buy that in bass form.

But it would be over £500, so i wouldn't.

I've got a Peavey 5w all-valve guitar combo. It's fantastic. Upgraded the driver which improved things further, and could fiddle with the single valve if I wanted. It sounds great, could almost cut it at a rehearsal in our five-piece if the drummer was quiet. Cost me £40 second hand.

Our guitarist has regularly used a 5w all valve Fender Champ combo to rehearse with our band, with a fairly loud drummer. I think he only paid £80 or so. He now uses a 15w Laney combo, which he also takes to our smaller gigs. Great sound. Paid about £100 for it.

I had been thinking about this recently, as I was thinking of buying a small valve head to go with my 1x10 eden cab for home practice. The CTM15 is kinda the only thing I can see, but it's way too much.

[Telebass]

You could build such a small amp, but not for the same price for bass. For low end, you need a decent output transformer, and they costs.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Telebass

[xgsjx]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417643111' post='2622667']
No im not but lets have a think about this one.
There are probably more bass players who would pick a valve amp over a solid state one at the same price point.
Many people buy small practice amps and as seen in guitar land there is a big market for the old style small valve combo's
Many little solid state amps and large ones too have a tube emulation feature which for the most part get it wrong.
Little modelling combo's have features that try emulate other all tube amps.

So why not just make a small valve combo at a price point?. I don't expect this to be the greatest thing ever or to out sell all other amps but fact is its a viable option.

I honestly am surprised at my fellow bass players lack of support for this.
[/quote]

I had the choice of valve or ss combo. I went for the ss as its more versatile. If I wanted a valve sound, I could add something like a Sansamp, DHA or some other valve pre or amp modeller.
I never did though. The moog bass Murf could give that subtle bit of grit (or loads of) whenever I wanted a more rock style.

If it's for home use, have a look at some of the combos with amp modelling, or get any combo & add something like a zoom or line 6 multi unit.
Or if you have an iPad, you could do what the likes of Pino is doing & use it for all your modelling & effects.

[icastle]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417643111' post='2622667']
No im not but lets have a think about this one.
There are probably more bass players who would pick a valve amp over a solid state one at the same price point.
[/quote]

'Probably' doesn't really cut it though.
Look at what you can get for £200 in valve amps and then see what you can get for £200 in solid state.
There's absolutely no way that the target market is going to select the valve amp.

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417643111' post='2622667']
Many people buy small practice amps and as seen in guitar land there is a big market for the old style small valve combo's.
[/quote]

The guitar market is different.
A small amp that you can crank up and get tube distortion at a sensible volume is a seller, but not in the majority of the bass market.

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417643111' post='2622667']
Many little solid state amps and large ones too have a tube emulation feature which for the most part get it wrong.
Little modelling combo's have features that try emulate other all tube amps.
[/quote]

Indeed they do.

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417643111' post='2622667']
So why not just make a small valve combo at a price point?. I don't expect this to be the greatest thing ever or to out sell all other amps but fact is its a viable option.
[/quote]

First problem is that your price point is way too low.
There are increased component and engineering costs plus a higher failure rate that needs to be factored in - and that's before you even look at how you compete in a market already saturated with solid state kit.
It's commercial suicide.

I know you'd like it to be a viable option but the reality is that if it actually was, then it would already be out there.

[cheddatom]

I think your reasoning is fair. A lot of small practice amps for bass are sold, therefore there's a market for them. I think the problem is going to be down to price. Clearly they can't build a valve one at the right price point/margin. Although I disagree with icastle (I think there is a market) he is right in that if the opportunity was there, it would have been taken by now.

Incidentally, if you plug one of these small all valve guitar heads into a bass cab and play bass through it, how does it sound?

[pfretrock]

[quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417636879' post='2622592']
Every bass player has owned/gbought a small practice amp which is what im talking about basically. I know if i had a choice between a solid state one or valve one which one i would chose and which one 99% of bass players would want. So im pretty sure a mass made all valve low watt bass combo sold for say around 200 pound would be a huge seller. If mark bass can sell a small 30 watt or what ever mini mark for well over 300 pound im pretty sure you would have an audince for an all valve practice amp at 200.
[/quote]
Valve components are just too expensive: High voltage caps, at least 2 transformers of (nowadays) non-standard design, expensive tubes (even preamp, at least £10 each compared to < £1 for equivalent solid state gain block), expensive power supply. It does not scale down either A pre-amp/driver for a 15W is much like that for a 200W.
Incidentally, Fender's original bass amp (1952 Bassman) was I believe much sought after by guitar players, so there is nothing much technically different in bass amp components. And this was the design that Jim Marshall copied almost component for component for his first guitar amp.

[pfretrock]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417644379' post='2622685']
You can run a bass through a guitar amp at bedroom volumes.
[/quote]
My (old) Fender combo was horrible at these levels. Nasty speaker resonance at some points. I put a Eminence 10" bass unit in (chose one that was Ok for a sealed cab) and it makes a great bedroom volume practice amp.