Creativity, Is It Over-Rated?

[blue]

[size=4][font=Arial]It would be interesting to know who started out with a focus on creativity and original material, however at some point it turned into a $$$$ hustle. Neither are bad. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]This thread is not really for the, [i]" I have a job, I don't need the money"[/i] guys, however please chime in with your 2 bobs worth.( I'm a Yankee and I have been on this forum to long. I'm starting to talk like you guys )[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]For me the hustle for $$$ started with how I felt after playing a couple a shows in a row, 2-3 and ended up with a little over $600.00 in my wallet. It was not until that time that I realized I had a skill and knew how to do something that had monetary worth, that didn't involve working for the man. I moved more to the cover arena , not necessarily the classic rock vertical. [/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]I have had a few guys from the forum come back at me and say[i],"Don't you miss the creative element?"[/i] For me, I was in some original bands, however It was never my material. I don't write songs. I don't have that ability.[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial]As far as creativity is concerned, what do you think about this;[/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial][i]"Whenever I'm on stage playing bass, it's me and whatever I play is going to have an element of creativity"[/i][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial][i]Comments & insights?[/i][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=Arial][i]Blue[/i][/font][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 3, 2014 by blue

[xgsjx]

I've always been an originals player. I like writing songs, whether that be on my own or with a writing buddy.
If I only played bass, then writing songs could be a bit more difficult. But I play a few instruments & try to understand the parts of the ones that I don't.

I've considered playing covers many times just for the money, but a couple in an originals set has been about as much as I can play.

Saying this, I don't do either anymore!

[blue]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1417649211' post='2622779']
I've always been an originals player. I like writing songs, whether that be on my own or with a writing buddy.
If I only played bass, then writing songs could be a bit more difficult. But I play a few instruments & try to understand the parts of the ones that I don't.

I've considered playing covers many times just for the money, but a couple in an originals set has been about as much as I can play.

Saying this, I don't do either anymore!
[/quote]

Fair enough, you say you don't do either, that's interesting. I only say that because I'm finding that the large share of guys on any of these sites for bass players are not active gigging bass players.

Blue

[xgsjx]

I stopped playing a couple of months back as I can't commit to a band anymore. Had not long joined a really good electronica band too, that we're getting some interest from the local media.
Prior to that, I had been in a few different originals bands that did a bit of gigging.

Cakes, work & renovating the house are taking my time. I've sold my fx, combo is for sale, but I'm not selling the bass (just in case).

[Drax]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417648775' post='2622772']
[font=Arial]It would be interesting to know who started out with a focus on creativity and original material, however at some point it turned into a $$$$ hustle. Neither are bad. [/font]

[font=Arial]This thread is not really for the, [i]" I have a job, I don't need the money"[/i] guys, however please chime in with your 2 bobs worth.[/font]

[font=Arial][i]"Whenever I'm on stage playing bass, it's me and whatever I play is going to have an element of creativity"[/i][/font]

[/quote]

Don't many people continue to do both? Play other peoples music and get paid, but also write their own stuff (for love not money).

Creativity is subjective, but I associate it with original material and / or improvisation. Playing straight covers is hugely enjoyable for lots of reasons, but it's not especially 'creative'.

That said, I'm one of your 'I have a job' guys, so take from that what you will.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Drax

[blue]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1417650221' post='2622799']
Don't many people continue to do both? Play other peoples music and get paid, but also write their own stuff (for love not money).

Creativity is subjective, but I associate it with original material and / or improvisation. Playing straight covers is hugely enjoyable for lots of reasons, but it's not especially 'creative'.

That said, I'm one of your 'I have a job' guys, so take from that what you will.
[/quote]

I would think some guys do both, but for some that might have to involve being in two bands. Some guys, like myself are dedicated [i]"one band only"[/i] guys.

As far as how creative is playing covers? My response, fact, I never play any cover song the same way twice.

Blue



[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 3, 2014 by blue

[neepheid]

Tackling the simple question in the subject - "Creativity - is it overrated?" - No, absolutely not.

Yes, I am actively gigging, I played a gig last weekend. Eligibility to contribute to the debate established - I've been playing in originals bands my whole live career, save for a couple of times for birthday party/special occasion. I don't mind playing the occasional interesting cover when the mood takes me, but I wouldn't want to be in a band that didn't create new stuff. You want to talk about money? I think it's a bloody disgrace what we get paid for providing an hour or so of entertainment, and that's when we get paid at all. We are creating the new stuff, if we're lucky enough to go down in history our songs will become the songs that other people play. I realise that only a tiny percentage of songs become the stuff of hit singles, legends and cover band staples, but if everyone just gave up there'd be no supply of new music to refresh and update the canon.

I want to be at that forefront, that frontier, despite the crappy monetary gains to be had - unless you "make it" in the commercial sense of the word. I won't lie - the prospect of that happening half scares me to death as I am in the fortunate, stable position of having wife, house, career etc. and I am quite a risk averse person. But if it happens, it'll happen because of the music we are creating - goodness knows it won't be about how much noise I can make about how great I am. I suck at that part

Did that help? It's late here, so sorry if that was a bunch of ranty nonsense.

[peteb]

An interesting idea for a thread.

When it comes down to it, I'm a bass player and the process for playing originals or covers is essentially the same. I started off playing covers in my mid-teens then exclusively played original material for ten years or so. After a break of a year or so I started playing covers in pubs / bike rally circuit with the occasional foray into the WM clubs. In the last few years I've been playing the blues curcuit and started playing some original material again (or as original as you get playing blues)!

Like the OP, I have never been the main writer in a band. In fact, most of the original songs I'm playing now have been written by the singer with a guy who is not in the band, even thru me and the guitarist have written a couple of things or re-written some of the songs he has brought to us. As long as the songs work, who cares who wrote them??

I'm a musician and I like to play (money is secondary these days but I still expect to get paid). I don't care too much who wrote the material - just that the band is good, it gets decent quality gigs and can pull an audience...

Edited December 4, 2014 by peteb

[blue]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1417652498' post='2622817']
Tackling the simple question in the subject - "Creativity - is it overrated?" - No, absolutely not.[/quote]

Agreed, creativity can't be over-rated.

Blue


[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 4, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1417652498' post='2622817']
Tackling the simple question in the subject - "Creativity - is it overrated?" - No, absolutely not.

Yes, I am actively gigging, I played a gig last weekend. Eligibility to contribute to the debate established - I've been playing in originals bands my whole live career, save for a couple of times for birthday party/special occasion. I don't mind playing the occasional interesting cover when the mood takes me, but I wouldn't want to be in a band that didn't create new stuff. You want to talk about money? I think it's a bloody disgrace what we get paid for providing an hour or so of entertainment, and that's when we get paid at all. We are creating the new stuff, if we're lucky enough to go down in history our songs will become the songs that other people play. I realise that only a tiny percentage of songs become the stuff of hit singles, legends and cover band staples, but if everyone just gave up there'd be no supply of new music to refresh and update the canon.

I want to be at that forefront, that frontier, despite the crappy monetary gains to be had - unless you "make it" in the commercial sense of the word. I won't lie - the prospect of that happening half scares me to death as I am in the fortunate, stable position of having wife, house, career etc. and I am quite a risk averse person. But if it happens, it'll happen because of the music we are creating - goodness knows it won't be about how much noise I can make about how great I am. I suck at that part

Did that help? It's late here, so sorry if that was a bunch of ranty nonsense.
[/quote]

Yes it helps, your doing your thing and on your terms.

I think were on the same page on the issue of risk. I only know of 2 musicians that I grew up with back in Jersey that "made it" IMHO.They both took risks most of are not willing to take on.

They both play in internationally famous bands and have never had to work a traditional 9-5 job. They both have lived more than comfortable lives as working musicians for the last 42 years. Both of these guys could have gone on to college, had traditional careers got married and had families. Instead, they were so dedicated to music, they both left with one way tickets to London in the early 70s with nothing. That's risk.

For those interested wiki or google Chuck Burgi and Albert Anderson.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[blue]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1417655112' post='2622834']
I'm a musician and I like to play (money is secondary these days but I still expect to get paid). I don't care too much who wrote the material - just that the band is good, it gets decent quality gigs and can pull an audience...
[/quote]

Agreed, couldn't have articulated it any better. We all know creativity can't be over-rated. I love doing shows, If I could work 5 nights a week and travel, I would jump at the chance. It's always been fun for me, a blast. However, it is also fun to get paid for something you love doing. Most people never have that experience.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

Edited December 4, 2014 by blue

[blue]

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1417663319' post='2622852']
In direct response to the question asked, no.

I'm in it for the music, originals or otherwise. All the bands I have been in or am in at the moment are well aware of that.

I haven't been paid for the last gig I did and I couldn't give a toss. I would have paid to play it. We were on fire.
[/quote]

Interesting position, you are obviously committed to your love of music.

My last gig was a blast the sound was great and the band was on it's best musical behavior. We all loved the gig and we also love getting paid at the end of the evening for the investment and time we spend to present our show.

I think your situation is probably a little different than most bands. Are you saying you played for an alcohol buying crowd, hauled a full PA and lights and performed for 4 hours for free?

Blue

Edited December 4, 2014 by blue

[gadgie]

"Both of these guys could have gone on to college, had traditional careers got married and had families."

You make that sound as though it was a bad thing.

I think in any business, those wanting to take a few risks are likely to prosper. Some people are happier having a nice family home filled with kids and then grand kids, and so on and so on.

[blue]

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1417669664' post='2622859']
"Both of these guys could have gone on to college, had traditional careers got married and had families."

You make that sound as though it was a bad thing.

I think in any business, those wanting to take a few risks are likely to prosper. Some people are happier having a nice family home filled with kids and then grand kids, and so on and so on.
[/quote]

Not a bad thing at all, it describes the road most take.

I am a little biased admittedly. I wish I would have skipped college and working for the man for 40 plus years and went to London in 1971 with my bass.

Me, personally, I have no interest in family, college and especially not working for the man.

A house filled with kids and grand kids, not for me, no thanks.

I'm in my element in those dark bars/clubs around 11:30 busting into that third set for an appreciative crowd. But that's just me.

Blue

[size=4][color=#0000FF][font=Arial][color=#000000][b]Bass Guitars [/b][/color][/font][/color][/size]

[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson Les Paul Gold Top Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson ES-335 Custom Shop Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]Gibson 1991 Thunderbird Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size] w/ebony fret board
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1951 Telecaster Bass Re-issue *MIJ (Dressing Room Bass)[/font][/size]
[size=4][font=Arial]Fender 1959 Telecaster Bass Re-Issue MIJ[/font] (Rehearsal Bass)[/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][color=#000000][font=Arial]G & L 1991 ASAT Bass (active pre-amp )[/font][/color][/color][/size]
[size=4][color=#0000ff][font=Arial][color=#000000]German Made Hofner 502 Limited Edition Club Bass[/color][/font][/color][/size]

[cheddatom]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417650652' post='2622803']
...As far as how creative is playing covers? My response, fact, I never play any cover song the same way twice...
[/quote]

That's weird. I only play original music, and I strive to get it the same every time.

I love a good jam, and don't mind jamming a song at a gig if it's under rehearsed or a last minute thing, but I'd much prefer to know the part in and out, and to be able to perform it consistently.

[JTUK]

I get as creative as I can within the confines of what I play ( mainly cover type tracks )..... as I play to please myself anyway.
I don't have REAL creativity as a writer but I think I have it to a degree in playing bass.
But...no, creativity is not overrated..it is fundemental... but writing songs and being in an originals band
means nothing in itself if you think the tracks are the bees-knees and no one will come and see you.

The is no point is writing your own songs, being in a band for x number of years and rushing off to play every
bill you can get on to, if no one comes to see you or buys your songs. I think a lot of bands should realise, it
ain't happening, no one is interested, give it up.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417648775' post='2622772']

[size=4][font=Arial]I have had a few guys from the forum come back at me and say[i],"Don't you miss the creative element?"[/i] For me, I was in some original bands, however It was never my material. [b]I don't write songs.[/b] I don't have that ability.[/font][/size]

[/quote]

Maybe this is going to be the dividing line here! If you were never much of a songwriter anyway, then I suppose you'll always be playing somebody else's material, so does it make much difference whether it was written by Goffin & King, or by your bandmate?

I'm in quite an interesting position at the moment, as I have been through two different phases: supplementing my meagre living with paid covers gigs, and having a "standard" day job. Throughout both I have kept the originals band going. I should probably also add that I had the luxury of a day job that was quite interesting. However, as somebody who was contributing songs to the band, and being given free rein over the basslines I played on other members' songs, I had a lot of space to be creative.

Similarly I normally had a lot of freedom with the covers gigs - unless we were playing a song with a well-known bass part, I could just go along with chord sheets and busk something appropriate. I just never felt the same level of freedom or expression in what I was playing. I came to the conclusion that having a (relatively interesting) day job and working on originals on the side was more satisfying than playing covers for a living.

However, I am also aware that Cherry White makes music with a certain amount of commercial potential. I always want to be proud of the music we make, and I'll be the first to cough politely if I think a new idea sounds too contrived or too obvious, but I think it's the kind of music that could reach quite a wide audience if we can get it out there. If we were playing some kind of obscure, uber-technical prog-metal then we'd have a lot of creative freedom, but I'd also have to accept that it was "just a hobby," and probably going to remain that way.

So maybe it's not strictly one or t'other: yes, the creative freedom I get from original music is, for me, much more satisfying than playing covers. But maybe it's the possibility of one day making a bit of $$$$ (well, ££££ in my case!) which helps to keep the creative aspect appealing.


*[sub]I'm going to use "standard" to mean a regular, 9-5 type of job. I know we joke about it on here, but I don't like to proliferate the idea that being a musician isn't a "proper" job.[/sub]

[CamdenRob]

Yeah creativity is definitely over-rated... what we need is more Dad Rock pub covers...

[BigRedX]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417648775' post='2622772']
[font=Arial]I have had a few guys from the forum come back at me and say[i],"Don't you miss the creative element?"[/i] For me, I was in some original bands, however It was never my material. I don't write songs. I don't have that ability.[/font]
[/quote]

Have you tried writing songs?

I hear so many times from musicians that they don't have the skill/ability to write songs. IME it's something that is learnt just like playing an instrument. I doubt you were any good at playing the bass the first time that you picked it up, but you persevered and now you play at least well enough to be in a band and earning money.

Those songwriters who seem to make it effortless as they pluck songs "out of the air" have spent ages working on them first and will have a whole load of left over musical ideas that are just waiting for the right other idea to slot them into.

[Adrenochrome]

When I started I just wanted to make music and have fun. Didn't matter if the song was written by the Stooges or my lead guitarist (or even rarely myself). I started gigging about 15 years ago with a set of mainly originals (always for petrol money), and then we were offered a pub gig so we expanded the the covers to make 2 sets of music, about a 50/50 mix. I nearly fell over when the landlord gladly gave us £150 quid and wanted to rebook us, as our set had only been put together to please ourselves! 3 of those gigs paid for our first PA system. After 3 years there was a change of name, slight change of direction from garage-rock to hard rock and we recorded a 4-track EP of which I'm still very proud of all the bass parts. During this time we still went out occasionally as a mixed covers/originals band playing pubs, and probably did more originals gigs with other bands.

So I ended up as the only wage earner in my family of 4, and I could only afford to play music if there was enough money coming in to fund my hobby. Every band I've been in has written [i]some[/i] original music. My own creativity has waned quite a lot but I never have trouble coming up with basslines for other people's ideas, and always enjoyed arranging - probably the same as most bassists!

Most of the best players I know in covers bands also write killer original music, it just doesn't seem to get aired much.

[chris_b]

[quote name='EliasMooseblaster' timestamp='1417688059' post='2622989']
....does it make much difference whether it was written by Goffin & King, or by your bandmate?....
[/quote]

Yes. You'd be playing much better songs if the writers were Goffin and King.

It's hard enough to find semi pro players who are great players. It's almost impossible to find semi pro players who can write decent songs as well.

Edited December 4, 2014 by chris_b

[BigRedX]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1417695177' post='2623093']
Yes. You'd be playing much better songs if the writers were Goffin and King.
[/quote]

That's entirely subjective.

[JTUK]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1417695942' post='2623106']
That's entirely subjective.
[/quote]

But not in any way wide of the mark.
Music shops are full for CD's from local bands they can't sell.
I don't say that is the final arbiter but it is the life blood and the reason most
bands should stay together.

We happen to have a decent writer... but not writing the songs he did, IMO..
but we are going to struggle to get back the costs of £1200 to make it anytime soon.

To be able to play a decent tune as well as write it is beyond the vast majority of local bands, IME...
and you can see that demonstrated by the amount of people they get to their gigs and the amount
of money they make... simplistically.

[Low End Bee]

There's nothing for me like seeing a crowd getting off on something I've written* and performed,
It's a tint bit about ego I suppose....

*[size=1]or creatively plagiarised[/size]

[DaytonaRik]

I've trodden both the orignal band path (as a guitarist) and came close to getting somewhere but not quite, and the popular cover band path. find that although I enjoyed immensley the feeling of writing my own material, there is nothing like the feeling of being appreciated and a crowd responding to your efforts.

We played to full rock clubs (Bradford Rio's, skate room at Rock Cit etc) and it was brilliant, but it could be hit and miss, with some great crowds, some indifferent. Some venues didnt want to entertain original bands and those were hard work as the punters expected the old favourites.

Personally, creativity is great, but there is nothing like the feeling of being appreciated and a crowd responding to your efforts.regardless of who wrote the material but having written it yourself was the icing on the cake.