70's Jazz buying advice?

[Drax]

My GAS radar is dragging me towards a 70's Jazz and I'm trying a few out next week.

Aside from the usual 'don't do it' / 'waste of money' etc - does anyone have any pointers to look out for, or is it just about playability and sound?

I'm looking at instruments at Gallery & Andy Baxter, so I'm assuming the providence checks out, and it is the instrument it claims to be.

If you've been through the process yourself be keen to hear your thoughts.

[Musky]

Weight. Although you'll know all about it as soon as you pick it up if it's a heavy one. A good idea to keep an eye on the neck pocket for gaps if it's a three bolt neck as well.

[Lozz196]

Playability and sound. My 78 Precision is not much to look at, neck is a bit worn-in, and it`s one of those basses where you have to coax the sounds from it with technique, rather than it just playing itself so to speak. As a result, it`s just about one of the nicest sounding Precisions I`ve ever played, really aggressive sounding when pushed - which is most of the time the way I play. I far prefer the 70s Fenders that have to be worked, rather than everything coming easily from them, much more satisfying. Get one your hands like and reap the rewards as you get to know where to dig in, where to back off.

A good book to get to see what features are on what year/model is the below, very useful for buying older Fenders, as well as being a good read (though I`m sure buying from the outlets mentioned there should be no worries on authenticity).

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fender-Bass-Illustrated-History/dp/0634026402/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1417825256&sr=8-2&keywords=fender+bass+in+books

[discreet]

Probably blasphemy to some, but I think a Limelight Jazz would provide an equal playing experience and tone to a 70s Jazz.
Your money would go a lot further, as well.

It really depends on whether you want to play it or if you're into the vintage/collector vibe too.

[spacey]

The Mexican Fender 70's re-issue Jazz bass is just one of those lost Gems in the range finish wise, change the picks for Duncans and for a fraction you have a very playable bass that looks identical to the 70's with the correct pick up spacing, neck binding and real blocks .
The actual real 70's jazz went from unplayable neck diving junk to silk, the silk ones usually got worn out and the junk ones left in cases.

[BetaFunk]

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1417867547' post='2624667']
The actual real 70's jazz went from unplayable neck diving junk to silk, the silk ones usually got worn out and the junk ones left in cases.
[/quote]
Do you have a 'real' 70s Jazz Bass?

[Roger2611]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1417830084' post='2624497']
Probably blasphemy to some, but I think a Limelight Jazz would provide an equal playing experience and tone to a 70s Jazz.
Your money would go a lot further, as well.

It really depends on whether you want to play it or if you're into the vintage/collector vibe too.
[/quote]

I think you have to consider whether a 70's Fender is ever going to be collectable, there are plenty about, they are renowned for being Fender's worst period for build quality (even though there are some perfectly good examples out there that should match up to any other period for build quality) and renowned for being too heavy to be useable...so even if you do end up with a good one is it going to be easy to convince a future buyer that it is a good one?

I would be tempted by a quality copy....I brought an early 80's Tokai Jazz Sound in Candy Apple Red with Matching headstock off here a few years back for a fraction of the price you would pay for a decent 70's Jazz, it is a far better bass than any other 70's Jazz's I tried before purchasing the Tokai.

If my Tokai were all original I wonder if that would be a better investment than a 70's Jazz....only time will tell

[JTUK]

Be wary of the so called vintage angle... many are just not that good, but get credence or time of day because they
were made in the 70's... Some were junk then and will be junk today, even with a £1600 price tag.

Worst bass ever..relatively... was my '75 Jazz. There was no way I was going to keep it over my '82 MM which was a
way better bass, but the pile of Jazz junk would be 'worth' or priced at £1650 now.. and that is a complete joke, IMO.

[spacey]

[quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1417867770' post='2624671']
Do you have a 'real' 70s Jazz Bass?
[/quote]

Not at present, sold the last 70's jazz in July I think, 1974 USA in Scotch lacquer, looked like honey, played like a lead bass.
In my time can remember 3 actual 70's passing through my hands, one, a black 77 was total dream bass, heavy, but wow factor level 10.
The mex re-issue is the closest I have found to the good ones.
As pointed out by many others, those that have actually owned them will all tell you the same, they go from zero to hero and not by year, you have to play it.
Could be down to they were still using hand jigs and who made it.

[Diablo]

Be warned - I went to Andy Baxter to buy a 70's Jazz and walked out with a very good condition and beautiful to play '68 with all the correct authenticity to back it up. Andy knows his stuff, and his den is somewhere to spend all your money without any problem.

Cheers,
Rich

[discreet]

[quote name='Roger2611' timestamp='1417867909' post='2624674']
I think you have to consider whether a 70's Fender is ever going to be collectable, there are plenty about, they are renowned for being Fender's worst period for build quality (even though there are some perfectly good examples out there that should match up to any other period for build quality) and renowned for being too heavy to be useable...so even if you do end up with a good one is it going to be easy to convince a future buyer that it is a good one?
[/quote]

70s Fenders are already collectible, as people collect them. A 76P I had was excellent in every way. It cost me around £280 in 1976 and I sold it a couple of years ago for £1475. But when you consider that £280 in 1976 was worth something like £2,100 today, it wasn't exactly a brilliant investment. But I don't think people 'invest' in 70s Fenders to make a profit.

[Drax]

Some really helpful points here. Interesting to keep the negative stories front of mind, might help me exercise some restraint.

I know I'm not in the market for a Limelight - even Fender CS 'reclic-ing' seems ludicrous (although I know a great many people like these).

It's daunting auditioning what in theory should be identical basses when you're spending a big chunk of cash, but I guess that's just buying Fenders generally. Hopefully Mrs.Right won't be an extra £1k on the budget..

[Diablo]

[quote]Hopefully Mrs.Right won't be an extra £1k on the budget.. [/quote]

Isn't that always the case....! Was for me, don't regret the purchase though. I'll be back to Andy's again if/when I have funds to purchase another.

Cheers,
Rich

[xilddx]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1417824113' post='2624460']
My GAS radar is dragging me towards a 70's Jazz and I'm trying a few out next week.

Aside from the usual 'don't do it' / 'waste of money' etc - does anyone have any pointers to look out for, or is it just about playability and sound?

I'm looking at instruments at Gallery & Andy Baxter, so I'm assuming the providence checks out, and it is the instrument it claims to be.

If you've been through the process yourself be keen to hear your thoughts.
[/quote]
Are you being honest with yourself about why you want a 1970s Fender? It won't give you any mojo. It might give you a bunch of problems and regrets.

[Drax]

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1417907525' post='2625101']
Are you being honest with yourself about why you want a 1970s Fender? It won't give you any mojo. It might give you a bunch of problems and regrets.
[/quote]

Sounds like my marriage!

It's a fair point. I get good tone and playability from my American Std but it's all pretty vanilla. I like to think there's something with more character out there.
I'm prepared that might not be the case though..

Edited December 6, 2014 by Drax

[xilddx]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1417908440' post='2625111']
Sounds like my marriage!

It's a fair point. I get good tone and playability from my American Std but it's all pretty vanilla. I like to think there's something with more character out there.
I'm prepared that might not be the case though..
[/quote]

The fireworks that come from every note can only be provided by you. You need a good looking, well built, good sounding, reliable bass that feels very very comfortable. That could be anything. The character you think a '70s Fender will provide is very hit and miss, there are so many horrible examples out there, I've played a few. If you get a good one then you'll probably be fine. Until you fancy something else

That said, I picked up a beat up old 1961 Gibson Melody Maker guitar last spring. It felt wonderful to play in the shop, beautifully played in and very responsive, and it sounded really lovely. I wasn't looking for a guitar - I have a really great Fender USA Deluxe Strat and I've always been a Fender player - I was just curious because the Gibson was cheap and very old. After playing it I just HAD to have it. I had it modded at the Bass Gallery and it's pretty much my perfect guitar now. I love the fact it's old and well made and could probably tell some stories, but also aware that's it's me projecting onto it, it's just wood, metal and plastic really. But I know in a blind test I'd still love it.

So, go and try a bunch of old Fenders and see if one makes you feel good. Just don't buy one without checking it over and playing it first. And watch out for the 3-bolts, lots of them have necks that move sideways so check the strings align on the neck, some of them have the G falling off the side of the neck. Don't disc out the '80s, there are some good ones about.

Best of luck.

[Drax]

Yeah great advice, cheers. I'm fully conscious these trips rarely result in what you set out for, most basses I've bought have been spontaneous.
See you this time next week with a BC Rich

Edited December 7, 2014 by Drax

[discreet]

[quote name='Drax' timestamp='1417950690' post='2625300']
See you this time next week with a BC Rich
[/quote]

Not if I see you first! Which one are you in this pic??

[Diablo]

I feel kind of queasy after seeing that photo.

[Brother Jones]

I've owned four 70s Jazzes over the past fifteen years or so. Two of them were lovely. Two of them were not. If I had my time again, I would simply have settled down with an Am Standard or a Sadowsky Metro. They're just better basses - beefier bridge with through body stringing option, graphite rods in the neck, far better build and alignment, etc.

But if you do want to look around, I'd pay attention to:

1. Weight. As mentioned above, this can be a serious issue with late seventies basses.
2. Neck and truss rod. Straight? Rod fully functional?
3. Pups. Check they're authentic. A '72 I once owned went in for a set up with its original pups, and came out without them...
4. Neck/body joint fit.Look for shims and cracks, etc.

Edited December 10, 2014 by Brother Jones

[Conan]

Try one of the signature basses - particularly the Geddy Lee and Marcus Miller models. They are modelled pretty exactly on original seventies J basses and (particularly if you go for one of the Japanese-made ones) have excellent build quality. I can't speak for the more recent MIM ones as I haven't personally played one - but other members on here rate them very highly too.

They come up second-hand pretty regularly on here and are usually very reasonably priced.

I've had two Geddies and a Marcus and they were/are all excellent examples of what I would be looking for in a 70s jazz (except the price and potential QC issues...).

But if you've convinced yourself that a "vintage" Fender J is the way to go - I suspect nothing else will do!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Conan

[Drax]

More sterling advice, thanks. I've tried 6 so far and all the advice has helped.

Staggering how much junk there is out there, for so much money. I think I've got realistic expectations but there are £2k basses that barely work, shonky non-original bits, banana necks and fault lines you could stick a finger in. Admittedly yet to see Andy Baxter and believe that will be a different show.

The classic car buying advice keeps coming back to me: The best days of owning a classic car - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it.

The hunt continues..

[Diablo]

I went round every s/h and vintage bass shop in London but left AB to last, glad I did. Man some of the junk that was being peddled in other shops at crazy prices as just comical. Don't buy anything until you've visited all the places you want to see.

[molan]

Andy Baxter is most definitely the man when it comes to vintage Fenders. His prices tend to start higher than others but his average quality count is a lot higher than anyone else out there.

70's Fenders vary in quality from tone to weight to fit & finish to paint flaws, trusted issues etc. etc. However, there are definitely some great ones out there.

We sold a '78P recently that was just great, nice balance, not heavy, fantastic tone and superb playability. We also had a '73 that was one of the nicest we've ever had in and it went for a really low price. Both went to BassChatters which was nice to see

A good 4-bolt neck J (which I prefer by a big margin over the 3 bolt models) is not going to be cheap though. It's one of the Fenders that seems to have risen in value a bit more than others recently as the '60's ones have been creeping up again. Any sort of cool custom colour can add a fair bit to price as well.

[Dan Dare]

As others advise, quality is variable. I have a '72 Jazz that is lovely - sound and playability - but I've had it 30 years and have done a lot of work on it. You have to treat any instrument on its merits, regardless of age, make, etc. Good hunting.