Using a music stand in a covers band

[bonzodog]

Interested to see what the opinions are on having music stands on stage with you while you are playing. In our band me and guitarist share vocals so sing half the songs each. Therefore its an even split on what we have to remember in terms of music and lyrics. I never use a stand and make the occasional mistake and do forget some words as I try to do it all from memory where as our guitarist openly uses one quite visible on stage but never makes a mistake. Ive always been dead against them but I am seeing more and more other bands using them openly now so is it deemed as bad as it used to be?
I know you can try and discreetly hide them but unless you can see the music there is not much point to having them.
Any thoughts?

[JapanAxe]

Depends.

In the band I front (on vocals and skinny-string), I never use a music stand. I occasionally forget my words, but it's worth it for the fact that I am free to engage with the audience, not looking down at a piece of paper.

If I am depping on bass, I generally aim to learn my part, but if it's at short notice or very involved, I will sometimes take out the sheet music I have transcribed.

Obviously if it's a sight-reading gig then a music stand is essential, and the issue then is whether to sit or stand. I am generally more comfortable standing than sitting, but this means having the music stand quite high if I want to avoid a painful neck as the gig progresses.

As a gig-goer I hate to see (or indeed not see) a band obscured by a forest of music stands at chest height. IME brass and woodwind players can rarely get away without the music in front of them.

[Diablo]

Good covers bands don't use music stands. They have rehearsed and leaned the parts so no need. As was mentioned above as soon as a singer starts looking at a stand then the gig is shot - the audience engagement is lost as the singer stares at the paper/ipad in front of them. After 3 months our last singer was still using a stand, so we fired him. For people who don't engage, such as sitting strings, brass, woodwind, fair enough in an orchestra, but for a 3-5 piece covers band there is no excuse really, just learn the songs. IMHO anyway. I've never dared turned up at a gig with a music stand, in fact I rarely even do it at a rehearsal.

Cheers,
Rich

[mcnach]

Brass and woodwind players don't engage??? But they do!!!
Seriously, covers band? A regular player and not just a quick dep for one night? Lose the stands.

[Hobbayne]

Our singer uses some lyrics which are discreetly placed in front of the monitor which he sometimes peeps at.

[JTUK]

Cheat sheets are ok for vox... but out of sight for pub bands and any band trying to put on
an energetic show.
Functions bands..?? maybe if you are playing a very wide and long repetoire.
They are supposed to be refreshers if you haven't really gotten hold of the song
but any regular band that uses them and sets them up on the stage is a bit crap, tbh..

I make the distinction here of bands and function bands..

[skidder652003]

pub covers, stands? No!

[arthurhenry]

You can get monitor style screens which display lyrics or music from a USB stick. One band I'm in uses an old laptop (on the floor) with an extra monitor attached for guitarist and me to see. We probably all know the lyrics to 1000s of songs that we grew up with, so why the problem knowing them for the set?

[drTStingray]

Well I must be the exception to the rule here - every band I've played in in the last 10 yrs has had at least one person using a stand (the lead vocalist) - ive occassionally used one if depping and reading chord charts or parts. There's often precious little room to do this - once the drummers set up (I well recall a certain dep drummer turning up at a small country pub gig and filling the entire space for the band with drums) and each guitarist having set their amp, multiple guitar stands. And particularly pedals, which take an area the size and shape of a spiv's opened suitcase, there's sometimes precious little room for the bass player and their mini stack let alone music stands.

I played in a tribute band at one time and the leader was so OCD he bought everyone drinks holders to fix on Mike stands but more to the point, everyone was required to use a music stand with no paper on the floor. The lead guitarist found a great mini stand which fixed on the side of a Mike stand as well - I shared this if I needed sheets (sometimes obscure instrumentals were added to the set which required precise playing - and which weren't recently rehearsed).

So music stands are fine but bear in mind there's rarely room and also the light available only renders them legible with v large writing or a lamp!!

Best bet is to learn everything but it's not always possible.

And major artists often use autocue!!!

[Lozz196]

Not really keen - I can see why someone depping might need them, but if a singer needs them in a band they play with all the time, well no is my verdict.

[pierreganseman]

Unless being called 3 hours ahead as a very last minute depping. Music stands on stage Make the difference between pro and amateur bands.

What would you say if you were at a theater play with some one going "hmmmmm" and looking at his paper to make sure he says the right words.

Edited December 7, 2014 by pierreganseman

[chris_b]

IMO it's neither a failing to use charts or an achievement not to use them. They are regularly used at all levels of professional musical performances.

We had a no charts rule with the originals band, but apart from those guys I've not been in a band that has banned charts in the last 30 years. On the other hand, most of the bands I play in don't rehearse so new numbers can go better with charts.

If you spend months in a rehearsal studio then maybe you should remember the set. For me they are a reference.

Out of anything an audience is going to notice during the gig, charts are the last thing I'd worry about.

[crez5150]

Saw a pub band last night with set lists in front of them..... the cheating bastards!

[Bassman Steve]

[quote name='pierreganseman' timestamp='1417953686' post='2625338'] Unless being called 3 hours ahead as a very last minute depping. Music stands on stage Make the difference between pro and amateur bands. What would you say if you were at a theater play with some one going "hmmmmm" and looking at his paper to make sure he says the right words. [/quote]

Not too sure of that. You see any number of huge gigs where there is a monitor feeding lyrics etc to band members - mainly the singer but technology like that is present everywhere. You may not see it but it's often there.

Nathan East plummeted in my estimation when I saw him reading a 12 bar.

[Drax]

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1417953064' post='2625330']

And major artists often use autocue!!!
[/quote]

True, but it's always well hidden. Agree with above, nothing kills the engagement if the vocalist is reading from a sheet.

Saw Tony Remy band supporting Marcus Miller a few weeks back. They got Noel McCoy on for their last track, a tribute to Jack Bruce with 'Sunshine of your love' - Noel was singing from a lyric sheet! for Sunshine..! It felt borderline disrespectful given the sentiment of the song that night.

[spacey]

Once vocalist gets any lyrics written down, for some reason they need it written down every performance, panic sets in if they can not find the bit of paper.

[Krysbass]

A definite "no" to music stands at gigs. In my view; everyone should have completely memorised the notes, structure (and in the case of the vocalist(s) the lyrics) of every song being gigged.

[Iain]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417951496' post='2625309']any regular band that uses them and sets them up on the stage is a bit crap, tbh..[/quote]

that was the discussion and conclusion we had in our covers band. Particularly for vox. In our view we should all have learned our parts properly and can focus n giving the best performance we can - focussing on being technically excellent and engaging.

I don't sight read so it's just be chordal progressions to remind me but I find I don't need them usually - we're not doing 3-hour epic tracks!

[ezbass]

I've got a stand that clamps to the mic stand. On it is the set list for that night with the odd word for the few numbers I sing or other aides de memoir to just make sure. I've never had anyone say that it's unprofessional or looks wrong. It's also a great place for my pick for the odd song I use it on and a spare battery for the wireless.

[spacey]

Few years ago put together a really good band to get club work, the vocalist had to have this lyric book on the floor at all times.
We failed every audition with agents outright as they all noticed this lyrics book and the singer reading from it.
We told him he had to learn the set without it, all were well known classics anyway.
He just upped and left and to this day even in his present band he still has a lyrics book and again, they only get poor quality work.
I agree with above, its the difference between a "musician" and a performer.
There is types of events where it is expected to see musicians reading and there is another world where people demand entertaining by the performance.
Mixing them up can be costly, in club/ pub/ wedding / party land you are expected to at very least, bottom starting line, know the set. .

[Japhet]

I know (and have played with) musicians who can remember songs they haven't played for years. Chords, solos, structure, the whole lot. Some of us aren't that lucky though. There seems to be some strange belief that a few cues and reminders constitute cheating or unprofessionalism. I personally don't need any reminders in a full set list, but have had the odd bit of paper knocking around when we're doing new songs.

[drTStingray]

I went to a classical concert recently and the whole orchestra was reading from sheets............ and the lead singer - mind you he didn't sing once, just conducted using a baton!!!!

Hmmmm bloody amateurs!!!

[seashell]

It's not very Rock n Roll is it?

[mcnach]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1417954442' post='2625344']
Out of anything an audience is going to notice during the gig, charts are the last thing I'd worry about.
[/quote]

It's part of the visual impact of your band... it really would be a turn off for me, as an audience member. I'd rather see a band that's not perfect technically but who are engaging and entertaining, rather than a perfect one musically, and stands get in the way, for me.

[ambient]

I'd rather see a band and them get every note and nuance right, couldn't really care less whether they have stands with music on the stage.

I don't see how it's at all 'unprofessional'.

I played on a cruise ship around Norway and Sweden for 3 weeks a few years ago, we sight read every night, it was kind of expected.