Using a music stand in a covers band

[Number6]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1418028500' post='2626010']


Time for a Venn Diagram?
[/quote]

There's always time in my day for a Venn diagram.....

[ubit]

Well all I can say is congratulations to all you " professionals" that can commit every lyric to memory. I work month on, month off, therefore we can only rehearse, far less gig, on my time at home. I try to learn lyrics and my bass parts in this time, but it's not always possible. When we get gigs, I am forced to use a stand otherwise it would be a disaster. When I was younger and we were playing far more regularly, rehearsing every week. Lyrics simply stuck in my mind, but with a busy life with other things to think about apart from being a rock star, these days it's not quite so easy. Maybe some shouldn't be so quick to judge next time you see a stand in a covers band.

[mcnach]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1418025093' post='2625983']
They're just jealous because they can't read music/don't know the names of the notes.
[/quote]

I call all the notes "Loretta", that way I don't make terrible mistakes

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1418031811' post='2626052']

I call all the notes "Loretta", that way I don't make terrible mistakes
[/quote]
I call them "Doremi".

[Norris]

We never use a music stand. It looks unprofessional imho. However we occasionally gaffer tape the words to something for new songs with tricky lyrics. The guitarist uses his home made colander-based contraption for comedic effect. I'll see if I can find a photo

[JTUK]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1418026426' post='2625993']
Around here people dance at pub gigs. Know your market.
[/quote]

We do..and no music stands in pubs whether they are dancing or singing..
It is only 25 songs to remember and play well...
Even deps don't put up a stand, they'll look at the sheet at the start of the track
for a change or two and then they get down to playing..or we wouldn't have them back.
There is a differnet between performance and tunes for tunes sake.
We'd want the guy to 'play' the part ..not interested in playing by numbers..
Would it be a hard and fast rule..?? not with the set we do, but for a regular guy, then no..

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1418032712' post='2626061']
We do..and no music stands in pubs whether they are dancing or singing..
It is only 25 songs to remember and play well...
Even deps don't put up a stand, they'll look at the sheet at the start of the track
for a change or two and then they get down to playing..or we wouldn't have them back.
There is a differnet between performance and tunes for tunes sake.
We'd want the guy to 'play' the part ..not interested in playing by numbers..
Would it be a hard and fast rule..?? not with the set we do, but for a regular guy, then no..
[/quote]
I don't see how any of that has got anything at all to do with whether or not there's a music stand.

[ubit]

I'm talking about stands for lyrics. We learn the songs well. We don't play by numbers. It's just hard to learn all the lyrics in short order when you are concentrating on playing the bloody bass too

[Number6]

Do you think Katie Hopkins or Michael Gove would see this thread as a social experiment?

[JTUK]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1418033430' post='2626066']
I don't see how any of that has got anything at all to do with whether or not there's a music stand.
[/quote]

You'd empty half the pubs round here if you put up music stands for a 'rock' gig...before you even started.
For jazzers, totally acceptable as the band leader will have a pad for horns and some pretty obscure tunes that
his 'dep' band would be lost of... plus they will probably play a lead horn.

The point about the 'playing' is about the gears the band will go through if they get hold of the tune...
and for that you are going to have to be all ears... you can't be reading it.
I get vocal prompts on a pad at foot level and out of sight, but if you are a playing covers bands, which is what most
pub bands have to try and be... there is no place for stands... not round here, IME.
For low key gigs where the band isn't really taken much notice of or 'watched', then nobody will notice anyway...

It seems like we are getting into no dots, can't play it, or dots and can't read it anyway
but the difference is, to me.. more of a performance or more of a 'recital'..both have their place...but..??

[spacey]

Once depped for a country band and every song was some variation of E B A all night long.
I scrawled a few down to avoid mixing them up and what a crutch that bit of paper becomes, to the point if someone stole it you would panic and not be able to play.
Learning to memory is harder at the start, but it soon becomes easy walking without crutches.
As I agree with most, stands and music have an acceptable venue level and an unacceptable one where you just look like someone who is too daft or lazy to remember a few old cover songs.

[Adrenochrome]

To directly answer the question, without making judgements on others, I think that musicstands look rubbish for a covers band. The main exception is when depping but even then I make efforts to have the music stand to the side and low enough to be barely visible to the audience.

Of course the occasional part of a lyric, or particularly weird musical hint is often taped to the back of a mikestand, PA speaker or monitor; and this IMO is fine as the audience can't see them.

[NJE]

I think it is all about environment, for a pub rock band I would say music stands dont create the right 'vibe'. I play in a 11 piece soul band and the backing singers have notes and set lists on music stands, and the brass section have music. Lead vocals and the rest of us dont have anything.

I also play in a smaller soul band and I share vocals with the female vocalist and we share a music stand, but we only play small social clubs and its not really an issue, we dont glare at the stand permanantly its just there for emergancies as both of us play in 3 bands and cant remember everything.

The new band I have is a pop/dance covers band and music stands are being banned because they dont look right. The only option is to use a ipad clipped to the mic stand which looks a lot less obtrusive and actually looks quite smart.

[spacey]

I would narrow it down to attire !
Theirs not yours.
Ballroom gowns + Dinner suits = music stands look good !
Jeans and generic band T-shirts and you look a right ****

[mcnach]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1418032152' post='2626058']
I call them "Doremi".
[/quote]

so you're a "real" bass player and you tune your lowest to C?

[mcnach]

I think we're getting a little tangled wth all that "professional" talk...
Those who dislike stands on a pub gig (like myself) probably mean (at least I do) that stands and "rock image" don't really go together. That's all.

Edited December 8, 2014 by mcnach

[TimR]

Indeed. It's all about asthetics.

And that's the band leader's descision.

.

Edited December 8, 2014 by TimR

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1418025093' post='2625983']
They're just jealous because they can't read music/don't know the names of the notes.
[/quote]
Exactly, if these unprofessional bastards with stands didn't need to read the dots they could get another job that takes up all their time instead of earning a living working as a musician then just play at the pub once a month like the rest of us! At least they would look pro without the stands then even if they had to quit being an actual pro and work at B and Q or something,Lol

[bigd1]

I find it a little odd that some people are saying using a music stand is Un professional, yet forgetting the odd lyrics or cocking it up is acceptable...................... really !!
Do we really think Joe Public would even notice if you had a stand or not ?
Although they WILL notice forgotten words etc.
I never heard some one say "they were sh*t, used music stands", I have heard "they were sh*t, they didn't know the words" or did you hear that cock up when they got lost.

Edited December 8, 2014 by bigd1

[Weststarx]

A few band I've seen are starting to use Ipad minis that sit underneath the microphone.

Personally I dont get put off by band using a music stand. With us pub band guys you tend to find some people/vocalists are in more than one band and have several different things on the go so remember the lyrics to every single song can be a bit of a mamoth task.

So long as the music is good and the vocalist isnt taking 5 minutes between every song to rearrange and find the next set of lyrics I dont see a problem.

[Muzz]

I've a mate in a heavy rock covers band, and the singer uses a stand to read the lyrics. It looks Godawful, he spends half the time singing down to one side where the stand is. And yes, a lot of people comment. There's a time and place for music stands, but in a halfway decent covers band, no.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1417974373' post='2625651']
I cant agree that its the difference between amateur and pro bands, I've seen FAR more pro level bands with stands.

[/quote]

Exactly. Michael Stipe from R.E.M. regularly had a music stand on stage with him to help him remember his more obscure lyrics. I reckon a career spanning 30 years and an estimated 85 million record sales counts as "professional". Never stopped him running around the stage or putting a great show on either. Being utterly reliant on it for an entire set is probably a no-no for a rock or pop act but having one there for discreet cheat sheets is absolutely fine.

[cheddatom]

In a pub, it doesn't bother me, except for the front person/lead singer. I'm sure they could have the words discretely hidden away - taped to the back of a PA speaker for example. No problem with that, but standing at the front with words right in front just doesn't look cool

If it's a session/function/background thing then it really doesn't matter at all.

[wateroftyne]

I'm not a fan of it.

[Thurbs]

I have played intimate pubs, busy saturday night pubs, parties, weddings, clubs, functions, concerts as bass, lead and backing vocals with rock, blues, indi, punk, funk, folk, jazz, lounge with origionals, deps, function and pub covers.. all with a music book.

The only people who notice are the odd band member and it tends to be (I imagine) the nay sayers who think the book is akin to doing a dump on stage.

I make it clear I am a "reader" at audition and won't learn a set off by heart and have a "take it or leave it" attitude. I am sure I have lost some gigs (probably the bands where everything has to be note perfect), but I have never had a problem finding good bands to be in.

This is the stand: http://www.ipswichpa.co.uk/quiklok-ms303-clamp-on-music-stand---clamps-to-microphone-mic-stand-1487-p.asp and I put stuff in a A5 ring binder with plastic wallets.

I was thinking of going tablet based, but the thought of digitising about a foots worth of lead sheets and scores rapidly puts me off.